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[Music]

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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this episode of the podcast is brought

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that's audible podcast.com slash para

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cast and now on with the show

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hey welcome neighbors in the podcast

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we've got a fascinating incredibly

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interesting theory to present to you

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later on when we bring on our other

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co-hosts Nick Redfern but right now we

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have Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

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you're in the para cast and we know over

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the past week or two Chris has been a

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busy little trickster oh I have indeed

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now you went back to Colorado to do some

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work but before we go into that maybe

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refresh our listeners memory how did you

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get involved in looking for strange

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goings-on in Colorado well I moved to

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the San Luis Valley which is in South

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Central Colorado in 1989 with a

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peripheral knowledge of some of the

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pretty amazing sighting waves of UFOs

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and and of course it is acknowledged as

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the birthplace of the publicized cattle

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mutilation a mystery back in 67 our

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first case occurred there a first

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publicized case and about two years into

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my move I just innocently got involved

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in investigating a series of very

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riveting reports that were seen by quite

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a number of people who lived in my

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little town and I just started writing

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an article for my little local paper and

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was on national national TV show within

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two months and and it just was a

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snowball going downhill and since

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1992-93 I've logged about I think

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somewhere around a thousand verified

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documented reports with with this you

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know set of data points and been told

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just thousands of stories from the past

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about events that occurred there and in

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2002 I elected to move there because we

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were having a thousand-year drought and

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I just couldn't take it anymore

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the San Luis Valley of course is the

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world's largest Alpine Valley completely

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ringed by mountains its radar invisible

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below 18,000 feet and has quite a

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esteemed place in Native American lore

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and in the annals of ufology and in

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terms of the documented reports there

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and I have had on the back burner for

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quite a number of years the idea of

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setting up a very extensive surveillance

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camera set up around the valley and I'm

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happy to report that we finally got the

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first of what will be seven cameras

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arrayed on cell towers and mountaintops

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around the valley and we do have our

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first our first camera up and of course

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wouldn't you know what within the first

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four or five days we've had we've been

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averaging about an unusual event per day

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that's been seen on the system of course

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we are okay okay fine unusual event

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well unusual anomalous objects the first

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report that we had actually was the day

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the first morning after the camera had

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been set up one of our team members was

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in the in the process of setting up a

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recording it was set up so that we could

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record 24/7 all the visual data from the

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camera and he happened to see what he

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described as two human humanoids fly

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right across the great sand dunes and it

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was a little disconcerting to him he

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zoomed in on the objects one was leading

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the other by about a hundred 150 feet

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and he said they weren't birds they were

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definitely like what appeared to be legs

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hanging down and some sort of apparatus

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that was on

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their backs so they cruised along and he

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was dumbfounded he could have hit the

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capture button and taken a still shot of

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it but he was so just was not expecting

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to see something just the first time he

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actually tuned into the camera image so

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now he's yeah my image hooked up to some

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kind of recording mechanism well he was

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actually in the process of setting up

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the recording with Genoa when he saw

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that yeah of course but since then we've

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already had several other reports that

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have been or sightings that have been

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recorded so i-i've been kind of gently

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reminding the team to get ready because

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I have a sense that maybe one out of a

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hundred events that are actually occur

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in the San Luis Valley ever really get

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mentioned to other people I think we're

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gonna have daily activity recorded on

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this particular you know cameras so I'm

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really excited about it if our listeners

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would like to go see this camera our

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initial streaming webcam video is on

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MUFON oh c.org /sl v dot HTM that's

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where you can go to actually see the

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lives live image of this first camera

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let me ask you a question here so in

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setting up these cameras do you actually

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go to the local authorities to get

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permission to lay these on cell towers

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no I go to the people that own the cell

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towers okay so you're going like 218 T

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or Verizon or one of those people well

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no I have the local some of the local

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tower owners have graciously not only

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granted me permission to use the towers

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but they've also been very instrumental

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in creating the internet accessibility

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and maintenance you know possible

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maintenance so if we need it and it's an

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exciting project I think it's not the

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first monitoring UFO monitoring camera

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project but by the time we get done with

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very sophisticated software there's

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going to be able to you know identify

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events identify particular objects and

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then triangulate with multiple camera

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images on a single single object or

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objects I don't think that that has been

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accomplished before so this is pretty

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exciting this is groundbreaking stuff I

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think this is a real definite step

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forward in the field of hard data UFO

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information

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and in monitoring a hot spot areas such

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as the San Luis Valley Chris about what

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you've done so far you said that some

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events have already been captured so are

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there recordings of this that we could

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look at yes there are I'm not sure how

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we're gonna make these clips these

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individual clips available we're still

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working out a process of how to get a

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consistent set up for logging these

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events and then we haven't really

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decided how we're actually going to

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present these individual clips to be

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peer reviewed if you will but that is

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definitely something that we're gonna

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have set up here in the next couple of

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days by the time of course this

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broadcast airs we'll probably have that

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all finalized and we want to be

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completely transparent we want to

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present all these images we're not

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making any claims on on these events but

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we'd sure would appreciate any and all

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feedback and analysis on some of the

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events and the many events that we're

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gonna be capturing we know we have some

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people in our forums that forum doubt

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the power cast comm who are skeptical oh

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yeah as you know that's okay

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I like healthy open-minded skeptics

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speaking of developments now you've been

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working with race Stanford about getting

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a digital audio copy of this recording

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of this UFO encounter he had a number of

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years back and when you're my fans yes

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uh-huh

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so weird it was ran with that well Ray

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has gotten the equipment I just need to

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set up a time so that we can go ahead

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and get him up to speed on how to

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actually go through the process of

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digitizing analog tape recordings and

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arrays Ray's still he's set and ready to

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go unfortunately I've been otherwise

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engaged here the past oh geez almost two

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weeks so I got a little bit behind the

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eight ball on this particular project

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but but yeah rest assured we are going

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to be posting now plus Ray wants to post

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additional visual data from other citing

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events and in stuff that he's

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accumulated over the years for people to

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have a look at and comment on I'm sure

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it'll raise raised some eyebrows that's

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over at forum dot the power can come in

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case you want to check it out and if you

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forget this up by the way you have you

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got a forum dot para cast calm well we

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own that

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- now I got it for so long yeah we got

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para cast com finally nobody else wanted

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it so they gave it to me for practically

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nothing because that's all I could

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afford to pay anyway before we go on

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here we've got a really fascinating show

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this week oh boy the fasten your seat

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belts listeners oh this is gonna be a

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ride folks what a ride now one of our

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other co-host Nick Redfern is one of the

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more prolific writers in the paranormal

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field and he's got something here which

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is a book called final events and the

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title the back cover has this title what

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you really don't want to know about UFOs

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so basically we're going to ask Nick

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Redfern author of the new book final

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events what you don't want to know about

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UFOs oh boy gene Steinberg our co-host

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is Chris O'Brien with Nick Redfern

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joining us after the break you're in the

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[Music]

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as you know the power cast is brought to

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you by audible.com the internet's

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also from our old friend Nick Pope as

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tired of searching for great talk radio

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the GC and radio networks we want to

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hear from you if you have a comment or

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question about the pair cast send it to

331
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news at the para cast com

332
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that's news at the para cast calm and

333
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don't forget to visit our famous pair

334
00:14:32,329 --> 00:14:28,970
cast community forums at forum dot the

335
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podcast.com get in on all the action at

336
00:14:39,979 --> 00:14:38,009
forum dot the para cast com our special

337
00:14:41,989 --> 00:14:39,989
guest is one of our co-hosts who's a

338
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:41,999
prolific author Nick Redfern his new

339
00:14:46,549 --> 00:14:44,790
book is called final events and if you

340
00:14:49,609 --> 00:14:46,559
look at the subtitle and the secret

341
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:49,619
government group on demonic UFOs and the

342
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:52,290
afterlife this is gonna be a wild ride

343
00:14:57,169 --> 00:14:55,110
Labor's to stay with us our co-hosts is

344
00:14:59,359 --> 00:14:57,179
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg during

345
00:15:02,739 --> 00:14:59,369
the para cast and I'm gonna ask you Nick

346
00:15:05,749 --> 00:15:02,749
okay final events what attracted you

347
00:15:09,019 --> 00:15:05,759
towards doing this research and writing

348
00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:09,029
this book well unlike most of my books

349
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:11,100
where you know I've done my own

350
00:15:15,259 --> 00:15:13,139
firsthand research initially and then

351
00:15:16,729 --> 00:15:15,269
stumbled upon a story you know as I'm

352
00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:16,739
doing something and thought well you

353
00:15:20,449 --> 00:15:18,540
know this this sounds like a great idea

354
00:15:21,979 --> 00:15:20,459
for a book final events was very

355
00:15:24,579 --> 00:15:21,989
different what actually happened was

356
00:15:27,109 --> 00:15:24,589
that the whole thrust of the book began

357
00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:27,119
not for me but for somebody else a man

358
00:15:33,229 --> 00:15:30,660
named Rob O'Shea who is a former mutual

359
00:15:36,259 --> 00:15:33,239
UFO network state director for the state

360
00:15:39,049 --> 00:15:36,269
of Nebraska and Ray lives in Lincoln

361
00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:39,059
Nebraska and he's been or he were we

362
00:15:43,549 --> 00:15:40,529
move on for a number of years but he's

363
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:43,559
also an anglican priest and he was

364
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,160
approached in 1991 by two people the

365
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:48,959
best I can best describe as kind of like

366
00:15:52,189 --> 00:15:50,790
deep throat sources from within the

367
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:52,199
Department of Defense who were working

368
00:15:57,199 --> 00:15:55,230
as physicists on a project which

369
00:15:59,479 --> 00:15:57,209
essentially was designed to try and

370
00:16:01,970 --> 00:15:59,489
contact what many people would call the

371
00:16:05,539 --> 00:16:01,980
greys or aliens but they they titled

372
00:16:08,739 --> 00:16:05,549
them as non-human entities or na G's and

373
00:16:11,169 --> 00:16:08,749
the idea was to see if we could I guess

374
00:16:13,909 --> 00:16:11,179
liaison even come to like a pact in

375
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:13,919
simplistic terms with them to understand

376
00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:17,370
their and harness their mind powers

377
00:16:21,579 --> 00:16:18,990
and this being the military you know

378
00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:21,589
inevitably convert them into weapons of

379
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:24,120
literally psychic assassination and

380
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:26,130
things like that I read a little bit

381
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:28,050
about race story a few years ago when it

382
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:29,940
was briefly mentioned in literally like

383
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,490
two pages of a book about fifteen years

384
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:34,800
ago and it's always sort of been in the

385
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:37,230
back of my mind to contact rate I've

386
00:16:40,850 --> 00:16:39,270
always forgot to do it and then about

387
00:16:43,190 --> 00:16:40,860
four years ago I thought well you know

388
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:43,200
why don't I go and do this and speed to

389
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:45,210
Ray and see what he's got to say and see

390
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:46,500
you know what sort of story there is

391
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:48,930
here and little did I sort of know it at

392
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:50,910
the time what began as a brief telephone

393
00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:54,470
conversation about 2006 turned into in

394
00:17:00,860 --> 00:16:58,350
2007 this huge extensive interview with

395
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:00,870
Ray where he sort of basically told the

396
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:04,290
entire story but set me on the trail for

397
00:17:07,549 --> 00:17:06,179
the collaborative story I suppose that

398
00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:07,559
appears in the book so in other words

399
00:17:10,819 --> 00:17:09,449
you know this this was actually made in

400
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:10,829
the direction for somebody else who'd

401
00:17:15,049 --> 00:17:13,050
been approached by elements of this

402
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:15,059
group prior to me actually look into the

403
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:17,370
story and in Ray's case like 17 years

404
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:20,730
before okay so the group is called well

405
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:22,230
the group is called the Collins elite

406
00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:24,900
but it's it's not like an agency like

407
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:27,780
the CIA or the FBI where they have you

408
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:29,370
know an office and a headquarters in a

409
00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:31,970
directory etc it's more like a fluid

410
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:34,830
think-tank quasi-official type body

411
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:37,140
where you have people who've been in the

412
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:40,020
group but also held you know

413
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:41,250
professional positions within

414
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:43,170
governments but have been attached to

415
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:45,090
the group because of their interests and

416
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:46,890
who've been able to provide some sort of

417
00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:49,290
input the best way I can describe it is

418
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:52,500
almost like an iran-contra equivalent of

419
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:54,330
it like a UFO type group but in around

420
00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:55,950
country equivalents in the sense the

421
00:18:01,610 --> 00:17:58,710
whole iran-contra project or operation

422
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:01,620
was coordinated deeply and with a lot of

423
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:03,809
funding and a lot of influence by people

424
00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:05,610
in governments but the group itself

425
00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:08,520
never really existed as a group titled

426
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:10,200
around contrary thing like that

427
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:12,390
and although this this group was

428
00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:15,840
slightly more official than that that's

429
00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:17,460
probably the closest comparison we could

430
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:19,260
come to and I think that's why it stayed

431
00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:21,240
under the radar for so long because it's

432
00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:23,190
not it wasn't even like Project Blue

433
00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:24,900
Book you know it was something that was

434
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:27,179
sort of totally almost off the books if

435
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:28,710
you like I think we kind of wonder

436
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:30,809
here is this one of the situations where

437
00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:32,730
it's your tax dollars at work

438
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:35,880
where government money is found for just

439
00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:38,070
about any wacky purpose and this might

440
00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:40,830
be one of those wacky purposes yes I

441
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:42,600
think that's actually a very good way of

442
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:44,730
looking at it is the fact that it's

443
00:18:51,769 --> 00:18:47,640
clear to me from the the people I spoke

444
00:18:54,289 --> 00:18:51,779
to that when you read the story you know

445
00:18:57,500 --> 00:18:54,299
a lot of the story is based upon belief

446
00:18:59,480 --> 00:18:57,510
systems now of course we know all most

447
00:19:01,100 --> 00:18:59,490
of us at least accept that there's a

448
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:01,110
genuine UFO phenomenon

449
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,480
many people interpret that phenomenon as

450
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:05,760
being extraterrestrial which it may well

451
00:19:09,769 --> 00:19:08,370
be but at the end of the day is people

452
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:09,779
honest with themselves they have to

453
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:11,250
admit that because we don't have all the

454
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:14,130
answers the the a th the

455
00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:16,110
extra-terrestrial hypothesis is simply

456
00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:18,870
that a hypothesis in the same way that

457
00:19:23,539 --> 00:19:20,820
Matt Thomas's crypto terrestrials

458
00:19:25,639 --> 00:19:23,549
scenario was and the people written

459
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:25,649
books suggesting that aliens and UFOs

460
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:27,690
are really time travelers you know it's

461
00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:30,179
it's a belief system and I think we know

462
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,580
obviously that the government

463
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:33,600
commissioned and sponsored various

464
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:36,210
projects throughout the years to look at

465
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:38,370
the whole UFO phenomenon like project

466
00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:42,240
sine grudge twinkle Bluebook the CIA's

467
00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:44,580
Robertson panel and some of these came

468
00:19:47,539 --> 00:19:45,990
to different conclusions you know Blue

469
00:19:49,399 --> 00:19:47,549
Book shut its doors basically saying

470
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:49,409
there's nothing to it but we know from

471
00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:52,289
hearsay and people a trope else The

472
00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:54,630
Grudge you know supposedly prepared this

473
00:19:59,120 --> 00:19:56,760
infamous report suggesting that some

474
00:20:01,130 --> 00:19:59,130
UFOs are extraterrestrial and general

475
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,140
twining ordered it this destroyed and

476
00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:03,840
then you have the Robertson panel not so

477
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:05,580
much concern about UFOs but the

478
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:08,730
psychological impact and manipulations

479
00:20:12,919 --> 00:20:11,010
that the subject might afford the Soviet

480
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:12,929
Union and I think this is another

481
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:15,330
example people in governments who are

482
00:20:21,139 --> 00:20:17,190
perhaps amenable and open to this idea

483
00:20:22,669 --> 00:20:21,149
put some funding its way and and the

484
00:20:24,049 --> 00:20:22,679
group develop from there so yeah I think

485
00:20:27,769 --> 00:20:24,059
it's it's no different from the

486
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:27,779
government funding remote viewing or you

487
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:30,179
know research into psychic phenomena you

488
00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:31,500
know all manner of things where they

489
00:20:35,269 --> 00:20:33,240
failed them you know there's any sort of

490
00:20:37,879 --> 00:20:35,279
potential for intelligence gathering

491
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,889
military applications you know they'll

492
00:20:42,050 --> 00:20:39,600
look into it if it's no matter how

493
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:42,060
bizarre it is I think you think so

494
00:20:46,910 --> 00:20:45,090
a 24/7 cable news network that's busy

495
00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:46,920
with criticizing anything any

496
00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:49,680
administration does would get on phases

497
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:51,750
like checking the sex life of pigs why

498
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:53,490
are we spending our money on this well

499
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:55,770
yeah I mean that's that particular

500
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,500
scenario was sort of laid out when the

501
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:00,960
whole story broke about remote view in a

502
00:21:03,980 --> 00:21:02,310
number of years back you know people

503
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:03,990
were saying why is the government

504
00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:06,690
spending money on ESP and particularly

505
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:08,520
when according to some of the files you

506
00:21:12,770 --> 00:21:10,140
know although they seem to have some

507
00:21:14,270 --> 00:21:12,780
successes it was more random and chance

508
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:14,280
you know it wasn't something that could

509
00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:16,440
necessarily be harnessed and controlled

510
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:21,030
to you know a definite degree and you

511
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,650
know again you can lay the same thing at

512
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:24,240
Project Blue Book people did criticize

513
00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:26,250
you know why why we're spending money

514
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:28,740
investigating flying saucer sightings so

515
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:30,600
yeah I think there's valid are groups

516
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:31,860
from both perspectives I think the

517
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:33,750
important thing is the people who are

518
00:21:38,150 --> 00:21:37,110
believers would be full-on behind it to

519
00:21:40,190 --> 00:21:38,160
be investigated

520
00:21:42,530 --> 00:21:40,200
those who are debunk well not so much

521
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:42,540
debunkers but disbelievers think it's

522
00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:43,170
crazy

523
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:45,150
and some people you know somewhere in

524
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:46,650
the middle of saying hey well we don't

525
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:48,180
really know what's going on but let's

526
00:21:53,330 --> 00:21:50,820
look into it and again you know I think

527
00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:53,340
the important thing is one of the things

528
00:21:57,050 --> 00:21:55,140
that I got from most the people I

529
00:21:58,820 --> 00:21:57,060
interviewed for the book was that at

530
00:22:00,860 --> 00:21:58,830
least for the first twenty years of

531
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:00,870
service group was very low-key with a

532
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:02,730
small budget of you know very small

533
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:04,890
budget we're not talking about you know

534
00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:07,710
the budget that's applied to the science

535
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:09,780
and technology division of the CIA or to

536
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:11,850
NORAD you know its yearly budget we're

537
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:14,010
talking about a small think-tank group

538
00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:16,230
of people that would get together every

539
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:18,660
so often prepare reports and summaries

540
00:22:22,850 --> 00:22:20,910
for people in government some quite

541
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:22,860
influential apparently who were

542
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:25,440
influenced by the findings and the

543
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,940
conclusions of the group so in other

544
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:28,860
words you know I think that has a lot to

545
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:31,170
do with funding it the notion that well

546
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:33,570
in terms of what the military budget is

547
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:35,430
per year it's a you know it's just a

548
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:37,410
small dip in the ocean so drop in the

549
00:22:41,420 --> 00:22:38,760
bucket that kind of thing we have Nick

550
00:22:45,260 --> 00:22:41,430
Redfern author a final events new book

551
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:45,270
about a demonic UFO conspiracy our

552
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:47,340
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

553
00:22:59,730 --> 00:22:50,720
Steinberg you're in the para cast

554
00:23:02,200 --> 00:22:59,740
[Music]

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you're in the para gasp you never know

654
00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:22,220
what's going to happen next we have Nick

655
00:27:27,010 --> 00:27:24,440
Redfern we're talking about his new book

656
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:27,020
final events about the secret government

657
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:30,260
group on demonic UFOs the co-host is

658
00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:32,210
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

659
00:27:36,430 --> 00:27:34,790
in the power cast Chris you have twelve

660
00:27:37,570 --> 00:27:36,440
thousand three hundred and ninety three

661
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:37,580
questions to ask

662
00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:41,090
I do indeed gene this is actually before

663
00:27:48,430 --> 00:27:45,470
I do ask Nixon questions about but some

664
00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:48,440
of the early workings of this particular

665
00:27:53,620 --> 00:27:51,380
name Collins elite I just want to

666
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:53,630
suggest to our listeners that that Nick

667
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:56,330
is the messenger here and I get very

668
00:28:01,210 --> 00:27:59,360
strongly from reading the book that the

669
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:01,220
Nick doesn't necessarily buy into this

670
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:04,010
whole scenario but it sure intrigues him

671
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:07,130
and having said that and given you a

672
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:09,590
little disclaimer there which I don't do

673
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:15,260
for most guests why don't you take us

674
00:28:21,130 --> 00:28:17,809
through how this particular line of

675
00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:21,140
thinking developed and and what was the

676
00:28:27,940 --> 00:28:25,070
the sort of the the alarm bell or the

677
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:27,950
wake-up call that created this this

678
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:31,280
whole area of inquiry all the way back I

679
00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:32,690
mean we're talking about a group that

680
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:34,940
that probably got it started I think in

681
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:38,960
the late 40s early 50s which is amazing

682
00:28:43,030 --> 00:28:41,240
there's something even a small effort

683
00:28:45,549 --> 00:28:43,040
think-tank effort like this should be

684
00:28:47,169 --> 00:28:45,559
able to maintain secrecy for so long

685
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,179
why don't you kind of lead us through

686
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:50,240
the initial formative stages of this

687
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:51,980
whole concept and in the minds of the

688
00:28:56,919 --> 00:28:54,770
think-tank and the important thing I

689
00:28:58,659 --> 00:28:56,929
would stress is that the the people I

690
00:29:01,450 --> 00:28:58,669
interviewed that the story that sort of

691
00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:01,460
developed closely paralleled if not

692
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,950
pretty much identically to that of rebel

693
00:29:09,159 --> 00:29:05,840
che where they they were talking about

694
00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:09,169
the government investigating the demonic

695
00:29:16,659 --> 00:29:12,820
angle and you know that torn between

696
00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:16,669
China denied access to our world if you

697
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:18,620
like but equally being fascinated by the

698
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:21,770
fact that what a viewed is sort of in

699
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:22,490
simplistic

700
00:29:26,770 --> 00:29:24,590
magical powers may actually be some sort

701
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:26,780
of B could be explained by science and

702
00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:28,820
we could harness them as as tools of

703
00:29:33,970 --> 00:29:31,670
weaponry etc so it was sort of a you

704
00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:33,980
know a double-edged sword sort of a type

705
00:29:38,530 --> 00:29:35,780
of approach where people are fascinated

706
00:29:41,290 --> 00:29:38,540
by the phenomenon but also recognized

707
00:29:43,930 --> 00:29:41,300
the hazards and the pitfalls but with

708
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:43,940
that said what basically happened we

709
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:47,360
have to go back to pretty much 1918 and

710
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:50,510
Aleister Crowley now Aleister Crowley

711
00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:51,890
I'm sure is a name that pretty much

712
00:29:55,870 --> 00:29:53,780
everybody knows you know you see someone

713
00:29:57,790 --> 00:29:55,880
who a lots been written about some good

714
00:30:00,340 --> 00:29:57,800
some bad and you know some correct and

715
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:00,350
some totally incorrect and you know

716
00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:01,850
certainly a lot of legends and

717
00:30:06,190 --> 00:30:03,470
mythologies have written have been

718
00:30:08,530 --> 00:30:06,200
written about him and have risen as a

719
00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:08,540
result now what we know for certain is

720
00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:13,820
that in 1918 Crowley embarked on this

721
00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:15,740
thing known as the a melange of working

722
00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:17,990
which essentially involved the ingestion

723
00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:20,990
of hashish and mescaline to achieve an

724
00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:23,000
altered state of consciousness and it

725
00:30:28,049 --> 00:30:25,460
was while in this altered state that

726
00:30:29,890 --> 00:30:28,059
Crowley supposedly made contact with an

727
00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:29,900
interdimensional entity that became

728
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:32,630
known as lamb and if you google lamb and

729
00:30:37,180 --> 00:30:34,970
look at the pictures he looks like you

730
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:37,190
know that the second cousin of the

731
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:38,750
creature on the front of witless tree

732
00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:40,550
was communion it's sort of like this

733
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:42,860
large headed little shouldered creature

734
00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:45,530
with these sort of ominous staring eyes

735
00:30:49,870 --> 00:30:47,900
now of course Crowley at the time didn't

736
00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:49,880
call it a gray or an extraterrestrial

737
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:51,980
biological entity or anything like that

738
00:30:56,830 --> 00:30:55,250
you know it was it was lamb of course

739
00:30:59,380 --> 00:30:56,840
you know this is thirty years and pretty

740
00:31:01,150 --> 00:30:59,390
much before Kenneth Arnold even was

741
00:31:04,810 --> 00:31:01,160
responsible for coining the term flying

742
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:04,820
saucer but Crowley had this experience

743
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:07,130
if you like in terms of opening a

744
00:31:10,810 --> 00:31:09,050
doorway metaphorically speaking in his

745
00:31:14,020 --> 00:31:10,820
mind if nowhere else yeah that was out

746
00:31:15,970 --> 00:31:14,030
on Montauk Long Island - I know that

747
00:31:17,290 --> 00:31:15,980
joke yeah that's one of the weird aspect

748
00:31:18,850 --> 00:31:17,300
of the story as well

749
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:18,860
and you know he sort of opened the

750
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:21,650
doorway if you like to let this lamb

751
00:31:26,740 --> 00:31:23,809
type creature in now somebody who

752
00:31:28,390 --> 00:31:26,750
developed a fascination with Crowley and

753
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:28,400
actually came to work with him become

754
00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:30,170
friends with him where's Jack Parsons

755
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:33,860
now Parsons were certainly an occultist

756
00:31:40,090 --> 00:31:36,110
he eventually in nine

757
00:31:42,190 --> 00:31:40,100
10:42 led Crowley zag a large of the

758
00:31:44,530 --> 00:31:42,200
thalamic Ordo Templi Orientis in

759
00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:44,540
California after Crowley had basically

760
00:31:50,169 --> 00:31:47,150
kicked out the previous leader of the

761
00:31:52,419 --> 00:31:50,179
group Wilfred Smith but Parsons was also

762
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:52,429
someone who founded the Aerojet

763
00:31:56,289 --> 00:31:54,110
Corporation which which even today

764
00:31:58,450 --> 00:31:56,299
produces solid fuel rocket boosters for

765
00:32:00,970 --> 00:31:58,460
the space shuttle program and every year

766
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:00,980
on Halloween NASA's Jet Propulsion lab

767
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:03,110
holds a basically what's like an

768
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:05,450
open-house memorial with mannequins of

769
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:08,480
Parsons and his early JPL cohorts known

770
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:10,760
as Nativity day so in other words he was

771
00:32:16,049 --> 00:32:13,340
someone who was not just deeply involved

772
00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:16,059
with Crowley but he was also someone who

773
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:18,830
arguably helped mold NASA and the future

774
00:32:24,730 --> 00:32:21,710
of the space program and because of this

775
00:32:26,590 --> 00:32:24,740
possible he invented solid solid rocket

776
00:32:28,750 --> 00:32:26,600
fuel that's right that's correct

777
00:32:32,620 --> 00:32:28,760
you know without Parsons you know we

778
00:32:34,419 --> 00:32:32,630
simply would not have had the history I

779
00:32:39,159 --> 00:32:34,429
guess that we have today of the space

780
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:39,169
program and rocketry but because of the

781
00:32:42,850 --> 00:32:40,760
work he was doing and because a lot of

782
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:42,860
this work was of interest and contracted

783
00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:46,010
to the military Parsons was actually

784
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:48,860
given a top-secret clearance with the

785
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:50,990
Army and the Air Force and the Navy if

786
00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:53,510
it was deemed necessary you know for him

787
00:32:59,380 --> 00:32:56,150
to see certain work and documentation

788
00:33:01,720 --> 00:32:59,390
that might further his own projects so

789
00:33:04,210 --> 00:33:01,730
that essentially was where there was

790
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:04,220
this sort of tie-in with Parsons and the

791
00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:07,250
government initially and what happened

792
00:33:09,970 --> 00:33:09,320
was that after the State of Israel was

793
00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:09,980
created

794
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:13,070
Parsons actually approached by certain

795
00:33:18,299 --> 00:33:16,070
people in Israeli government and was

796
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:18,309
given an offer of position to help them

797
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:21,290
develop their own rocket program and

798
00:33:27,010 --> 00:33:23,809
Parsons families to be of great interest

799
00:33:29,169 --> 00:33:27,020
to him and what he did he made a fatal

800
00:33:31,510 --> 00:33:29,179
mistake rather than just sort of

801
00:33:34,990 --> 00:33:31,520
preparing a detailed resume he actually

802
00:33:36,669 --> 00:33:35,000
secretly talked stole borrowed however

803
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:36,679
you want to terminate documents from his

804
00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:38,570
workplace a huge aircraft where he's

805
00:33:43,510 --> 00:33:40,520
working at the time the Howard Hughes

806
00:33:45,970 --> 00:33:43,520
Aircraft Company and took them home with

807
00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:45,980
a view to sharing them with the Israelis

808
00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:48,710
and what happened was that of course you

809
00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:49,430
know secure

810
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:51,680
he procedures etc found the documents

811
00:33:56,170 --> 00:33:53,510
were missing was traced back to Parsons

812
00:33:59,500 --> 00:33:56,180
and a huge investigation was initiated

813
00:34:02,260 --> 00:33:59,510
by the FBI Army Intelligence Air Force

814
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:02,270
intelligence and his security personnel

815
00:34:07,230 --> 00:34:05,990
to determine if Crowell asked if Parsons

816
00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:07,240
was just being reckless and stupid

817
00:34:11,170 --> 00:34:09,500
because he really wanted this job with

818
00:34:13,570 --> 00:34:11,180
the Israelis or if actually he was

819
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:13,580
engaging on an espionage operation on

820
00:34:16,870 --> 00:34:15,200
behalf of the Israelis and he was just

821
00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:16,880
trying to play it down and say oh you

822
00:34:20,980 --> 00:34:18,260
know I'm just looking for a job with

823
00:34:24,150 --> 00:34:20,990
them and so what happened was that there

824
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:24,160
was this investigation of his potential

825
00:34:29,260 --> 00:34:27,080
espionage angle but the people who were

826
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:29,270
involved as I said from FBI Air Force

827
00:34:34,090 --> 00:34:31,130
intelligence army intelligence Hughes

828
00:34:35,830 --> 00:34:34,100
even the Navy the more they dug into the

829
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:35,840
story in his background you know he said

830
00:34:39,130 --> 00:34:36,830
they had to do a lot of background

831
00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:39,140
checks the more they found information

832
00:34:45,460 --> 00:34:42,740
out on his quote other life as they

833
00:34:47,770 --> 00:34:45,470
termed it you know with Crowley and

834
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:47,780
getting involved with people like l ron

835
00:34:51,250 --> 00:34:48,260
hubbard

836
00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:51,260
and trying to conjure up elementals and

837
00:34:55,570 --> 00:34:54,230
things like this and the story that i

838
00:34:57,820 --> 00:34:55,580
was given by the various people I

839
00:35:00,220 --> 00:34:57,830
interviewed was that this other life

840
00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:00,230
that he had I guess fascinating many of

841
00:35:03,370 --> 00:35:01,700
the people in the official world that

842
00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:03,380
were engaged in the espionage operation

843
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:05,180
and even when the espionage operation

844
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:07,370
came to an end and it was determined

845
00:35:11,830 --> 00:35:09,530
that pastors really had just been

846
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,840
reckless he wasn't an espionage agent

847
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:13,760
for the Israelis and he lost his secret

848
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:16,850
clearance that these people still took a

849
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:18,290
deep interest in what he was doing

850
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:20,510
because they begin to began to see

851
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,410
parallels surfacing that seem to link

852
00:35:28,450 --> 00:35:26,240
Parsons with aspects of the UFO

853
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:28,460
phenomenon one being that you know as I

854
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:30,170
mentioned the Parsons at the time at

855
00:35:34,570 --> 00:35:32,960
least was friends with l ron Hubbard for

856
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:34,580
a while they had a big falling out

857
00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:36,350
that's a totally different story but he

858
00:35:40,330 --> 00:35:38,030
was friends with l ron Hubbard who

859
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:40,340
started Scientology who started

860
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:42,710
scientology and l ron Hubbard wrote

861
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:44,690
science fiction he had a lot of well

862
00:35:52,690 --> 00:35:47,170
received science fiction in the 1940s

863
00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:52,700
and he Hubbard was well-known to Ray

864
00:35:57,970 --> 00:35:55,190
Palmer who as many people will know was

865
00:36:00,040 --> 00:35:57,980
a very influential editor and writer for

866
00:36:02,350 --> 00:36:00,050
science fiction magazines why

867
00:36:04,750 --> 00:36:02,360
right palmer always get in the middle of

868
00:36:07,330 --> 00:36:04,760
these things you know I mean some people

869
00:36:09,070 --> 00:36:07,340
just remember ray Palmer for example is

870
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:09,080
the guy who brought Richard shaver to

871
00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:10,970
the public arena the co-founder of fate

872
00:36:14,830 --> 00:36:13,100
magazine and suddenly we've got Ray

873
00:36:16,330 --> 00:36:14,840
Palmer again I should tell our listeners

874
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:16,340
before we get to the next section of the

875
00:36:21,220 --> 00:36:19,940
show that I met Ray Palmer once I think

876
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:21,230
of a lot of the rare people who met him

877
00:36:24,970 --> 00:36:23,270
because he had a physical deformity so

878
00:36:27,550 --> 00:36:24,980
he didn't like to go out in public very

879
00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:27,560
much I interviewed him and I also talked

880
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:28,700
to him a couple of times on the

881
00:36:32,590 --> 00:36:30,890
telephone but that gets to be very

882
00:36:36,070 --> 00:36:32,600
complicated very involved and has

883
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:36,080
nothing to do with Nick Redferns book is

884
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:40,250
called final events and the subtitle and

885
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:42,650
the secret government group on demonic

886
00:36:48,070 --> 00:36:46,130
UFOs and the afterlife and it's brought

887
00:36:50,620 --> 00:36:48,080
to you by our friends at anomalous books

888
00:36:53,140 --> 00:36:50,630
the co-host this week is Chris O'Brien

889
00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:53,150
on gene Steinberg you're in the para

890
00:37:02,240 --> 00:36:59,650
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we are the gcn radio networks

1002
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either to make Pope's you're listening

1003
00:41:19,770 --> 00:41:17,560
to the parrot talk Nick Redfern Ofra

1004
00:41:22,020 --> 00:41:19,780
final events joining of this week Chris

1005
00:41:24,270 --> 00:41:22,030
O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene Steinberg

1006
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:24,280
you're in the para cast and you were

1007
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,850
talking about l ron Hubbard of

1008
00:41:31,410 --> 00:41:29,040
Scientology Fame and also well-known

1009
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,420
science fiction writer and then you

1010
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:34,480
brought up Ray Palmer but he was somehow

1011
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:36,730
involved in this grouping explained

1012
00:41:40,890 --> 00:41:39,130
further yeah well what happened was as I

1013
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:40,900
said when we set Bernard Shaw operation

1014
00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:42,640
against Parsons was shut down and he was

1015
00:41:46,290 --> 00:41:44,200
cleared but lost his security clearance

1016
00:41:48,090 --> 00:41:46,300
people in the official world was still

1017
00:41:50,490 --> 00:41:48,100
interested and fascinated by this other

1018
00:41:52,830 --> 00:41:50,500
world he had and the story given to me

1019
00:41:55,470 --> 00:41:52,840
was because Parsons was friends with

1020
00:41:57,930 --> 00:41:55,480
Herbert Herbert wrote sci-fi and one of

1021
00:41:59,820 --> 00:41:57,940
the most influential magazine editors of

1022
00:42:02,190 --> 00:41:59,830
the time you know image honor of fantasy

1023
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:02,200
and science fiction was Ray Palmer who

1024
00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:05,050
knew Hubbard and Palmer was also friends

1025
00:42:09,930 --> 00:42:07,270
with Kenneth Arnold and actually

1026
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:09,940
co-wrote and published Arnold's the

1027
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:12,190
coming of the flying saucers and I was

1028
00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:13,570
told that it was through this sort of

1029
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:15,670
friend of a friend of a friend situation

1030
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:18,550
there Parsons and are not actually met

1031
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:20,590
on at least two occasions and for the

1032
00:42:26,910 --> 00:42:23,110
people in this group the very fact that

1033
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:26,920
Parsons had met Arnold and the fact that

1034
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:30,250
Parsons was friends with Crowley who'd

1035
00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:32,530
summoned up this weird alien looking

1036
00:42:37,050 --> 00:42:35,470
creature and thirdly the fact that one

1037
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:37,060
of when so much their colleague more

1038
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:39,610
like a competitor of Parsons with Robert

1039
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:42,130
Goddard who actually moved his rocket

1040
00:42:48,210 --> 00:42:43,810
research out to none other than Roswell

1041
00:42:50,420 --> 00:42:48,220
New Mexico veterans group basically was

1042
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:50,430
following all these strands linking

1043
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:53,530
Parsons with Goddard and Crowley and

1044
00:42:57,810 --> 00:42:55,930
Kenneth Arnold etc and admitted but you

1045
00:42:59,790 --> 00:42:57,820
know they didn't really I guess have an

1046
00:43:01,260 --> 00:42:59,800
idea what this all meant other than the

1047
00:43:04,590 --> 00:43:01,270
fact that there were pieces that seemed

1048
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:04,600
to link certain players in the early

1049
00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:06,610
formative years of ufology

1050
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:08,590
it was literally a case of some of the

1051
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:10,210
people being involved in this espionage

1052
00:43:13,830 --> 00:43:12,100
operation sort of getting together after

1053
00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:13,840
work there's one of them described it to

1054
00:43:19,230 --> 00:43:16,390
me like over martinis in a bar in DC or

1055
00:43:21,390 --> 00:43:19,240
somewhere talking about hey you know

1056
00:43:23,610 --> 00:43:21,400
this flying saucer way but suddenly

1057
00:43:24,839 --> 00:43:23,620
starting this guy we were investigating

1058
00:43:26,759 --> 00:43:24,849
on this espionage

1059
00:43:29,279 --> 00:43:26,769
operation seeds have been in the thick

1060
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:29,289
of it and had sort of strands of his

1061
00:43:34,049 --> 00:43:31,930
story spreading out throughout you know

1062
00:43:36,690 --> 00:43:34,059
various formative people in cases in the

1063
00:43:38,940 --> 00:43:36,700
subject whether it's very Palmer or

1064
00:43:41,219 --> 00:43:38,950
Kenneth Arnold you know rather Goddard

1065
00:43:42,809 --> 00:43:41,229
at Roswell and you know they admitted to

1066
00:43:45,059 --> 00:43:42,819
me that for the first couple of years it

1067
00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:45,069
was just a case of having these after

1068
00:43:48,569 --> 00:43:47,470
dinner meetings when you know everybody

1069
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:48,579
was in the right place at the right time

1070
00:43:57,180 --> 00:43:53,380
etc but then over time they began to

1071
00:43:59,099 --> 00:43:57,190
attract official interest you know with

1072
00:44:01,559 --> 00:43:59,109
other people in governments that were

1073
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:01,569
tasked with investigating UFOs not

1074
00:44:05,339 --> 00:44:03,249
having much success like grudge and

1075
00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:05,349
Bluebook you know sort of looking into

1076
00:44:10,109 --> 00:44:08,200
the subject but not reportedly at least

1077
00:44:12,089 --> 00:44:10,119
catching one of these things they seemed

1078
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:12,099
to vanish from radar they didn't behave

1079
00:44:15,989 --> 00:44:14,650
like we would expect a hostile enemy to

1080
00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:15,999
behave in the military was sort of

1081
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:18,670
perplexed by it so somebody said why

1082
00:44:22,349 --> 00:44:20,710
don't you guys have a look at this other

1083
00:44:23,819 --> 00:44:22,359
angle you've been investigate and you

1084
00:44:26,579 --> 00:44:23,829
know this thing with Parsons and Crowley

1085
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:26,589
and you know we'll give you the time and

1086
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,890
space and some funding to do it and if

1087
00:44:33,390 --> 00:44:31,599
something comes of it great if nothing

1088
00:44:35,849 --> 00:44:33,400
comes of it well you know we gave it a

1089
00:44:37,979 --> 00:44:35,859
try and just just see what you can kind

1090
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:37,989
of drum up and that really seems to be

1091
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:39,910
the way that it all kicked off I did not

1092
00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:41,710
been for this espionage investigation

1093
00:44:46,529 --> 00:44:43,390
the people involved wouldn't have

1094
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:46,539
stumbled upon the fact that in baby or

1095
00:44:51,150 --> 00:44:48,400
at least Parsons was sort of responsible

1096
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:51,160
for all these late forties door openings

1097
00:44:56,190 --> 00:44:53,890
and you know flying saucers flying in so

1098
00:44:59,819 --> 00:44:56,200
to speak well one of the things Nick I

1099
00:45:02,579 --> 00:44:59,829
find really fascinating is the actual

1100
00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:02,589
series of magical workings that Parsons

1101
00:45:07,229 --> 00:45:03,880
under when I think was over a

1102
00:45:10,229 --> 00:45:07,239
three-month period in 1946 out in the

1103
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:10,239
California desert with the assistance of

1104
00:45:15,420 --> 00:45:11,710
l ron hubbard and this was called the

1105
00:45:17,279 --> 00:45:15,430
babylon working and it was an effort to

1106
00:45:19,559 --> 00:45:17,289
correct me if I'm wrong create a moon

1107
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:19,569
child or kind of an antichrist

1108
00:45:23,729 --> 00:45:21,910
type figure do you want to talk about

1109
00:45:25,799 --> 00:45:23,739
that briefly before we move on because

1110
00:45:28,170 --> 00:45:25,809
we have a lot of ground to cover yeah

1111
00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:28,180
this is one of the important things you

1112
00:45:31,319 --> 00:45:29,710
know this wasn't somebody just dabbling

1113
00:45:33,359 --> 00:45:31,329
like with a Ouija board on a Friday

1114
00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:33,369
night over a few beers and just having a

1115
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:35,380
laugh and see what would happen you know

1116
00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:38,160
it was more along the lines of a deep

1117
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:41,400
of rituals and rites to try and you know

1118
00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:44,490
literally summon up some sort of entity

1119
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:47,070
which many people would perceive has

1120
00:45:52,010 --> 00:45:49,350
been a very hostile entity or at least

1121
00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:52,020
an entity that had the ability to be

1122
00:45:55,940 --> 00:45:53,640
hostile it's the same thing with a lot

1123
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:55,950
of these hundreds of entities and

1124
00:46:01,610 --> 00:45:58,800
tricksters etc that they can be as

1125
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:01,620
playful and as they can be deceitful and

1126
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:04,970
this friendly as they can be deadly and

1127
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,940
Parsons you know had a deep respect for

1128
00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:11,040
whatever these creatures or beings might

1129
00:46:15,860 --> 00:46:13,740
be and realize that you know you can go

1130
00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:15,870
into this and it can turn very bad or it

1131
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:18,300
can turn very good depending on your own

1132
00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:20,910
the way you deal with it and you know

1133
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,580
how it deals with you but yeah I mean

1134
00:46:29,570 --> 00:46:26,240
these rituals the babylon rituals were

1135
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:29,580
extensive you know and the this is why

1136
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:32,250
the Collins Uli group took so much

1137
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:34,650
interest in notice of it because they

1138
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:36,150
realized this wasn't just some guy

1139
00:46:41,690 --> 00:46:38,510
dabbling you know he was practically

1140
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:41,700
obsessed to the point where he was

1141
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:44,160
determined to conjure up something come

1142
00:46:52,580 --> 00:46:50,250
hell or high water boy he would do an

1143
00:46:55,310 --> 00:46:52,590
invocation in uh Japan I think before

1144
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:55,320
his rocket fuel test correct yeah that's

1145
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:57,330
correct I mean you know this was someone

1146
00:47:03,260 --> 00:46:59,700
who straddled the worlds of the military

1147
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:03,270
and the occult as easily did he'd get

1148
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:05,250
out of bed and eat his breakfast you

1149
00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:07,290
know that is quite true before each

1150
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:09,030
rocket launch he felt to have a

1151
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,490
favorable result and put a positive spin

1152
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:14,400
on things he would provide like an

1153
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:18,690
invocation or you know a speech if you

1154
00:47:24,350 --> 00:47:22,290
like almost appeasing and look asking

1155
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,360
for good fortune from the Greek god Pan

1156
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:26,400
you know and stomping around on the

1157
00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:29,130
ground etc well people like Theodore von

1158
00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:31,470
Karman sort of looked on mystified and

1159
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:34,200
amused at the same time that's the first

1160
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:36,300
question that occurs to me Nick is this

1161
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:39,420
basically the same as anyone who does a

1162
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:41,130
prayer before they do something that

1163
00:47:46,550 --> 00:47:43,970
might be dangerous well yeah I mean

1164
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,560
somebody going into battle and saying it

1165
00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:48,240
was a Christian saying please God

1166
00:47:51,740 --> 00:47:50,280
protect me you know and then saying some

1167
00:47:53,300 --> 00:47:51,750
use a Muslim you know

1168
00:47:55,310 --> 00:47:53,310
prayer themselves before they go into

1169
00:47:57,020 --> 00:47:55,320
battle or somebody who's an atheist

1170
00:47:59,090 --> 00:47:57,030
saying I'm just gonna look at himself

1171
00:48:00,860 --> 00:47:59,100
but you know let's keep fingers crossed

1172
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:00,870
you know crossing your fingers he's not

1173
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:02,850
much different from invoking the God Pam

1174
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:05,610
you know you're doing something to to

1175
00:48:09,590 --> 00:48:07,650
try and hope there's something he's

1176
00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:09,600
gonna help you have a positive outcome

1177
00:48:14,180 --> 00:48:11,910
you know it all depends on your belief

1178
00:48:15,950 --> 00:48:14,190
system but the the thing with Parsons is

1179
00:48:17,810 --> 00:48:15,960
he demonstrates that this was someone

1180
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:17,820
that the military was willing to work

1181
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:19,650
with and how did they be interesting and

1182
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:21,570
they actually didn't know though you

1183
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:23,250
know mind too much and actually ignored

1184
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:26,130
to a large extent you know he's what

1185
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,690
they perceived as he's an eccentricity

1186
00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:29,760
and that's that's pretty mind-blowing

1187
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:31,230
when you really think about it back in

1188
00:48:37,790 --> 00:48:35,040
the 40s and into the early 50s turning a

1189
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:37,800
blind eye to a master occultist who is

1190
00:48:44,540 --> 00:48:40,650
combining the esoteric worlds of the

1191
00:48:46,850 --> 00:48:44,550
occult and in conjuring doorways and

1192
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:46,860
elementals and then being a world class

1193
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:49,830
literally a rocket scientist who helped

1194
00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:53,370
invent some of our most notable you know

1195
00:49:00,400 --> 00:48:57,900
progress in in the field so getting back

1196
00:49:03,860 --> 00:49:00,410
to the timeline here so this group was

1197
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:03,870
concerned about about Parsons and

1198
00:49:09,770 --> 00:49:07,380
Crowley and the occult potential aspect

1199
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:09,780
for what emerged the following year

1200
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:13,140
after the Babylon ritual in 1947 as this

1201
00:49:19,940 --> 00:49:16,050
huge massive wave of flying saucer

1202
00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:19,950
reports so give us kind of a sense of

1203
00:49:25,580 --> 00:49:22,350
how that the end of the 40s period early

1204
00:49:28,370 --> 00:49:25,590
50s period up and around until the time

1205
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:28,380
that Parsons blew himself up in 52 once

1206
00:49:32,090 --> 00:49:29,910
you give us a sense of how how this

1207
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:32,100
group really got started on this on this

1208
00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:36,930
tact yeah well sort of 49 50 51 there

1209
00:49:41,150 --> 00:49:39,270
isn't a great deal of material because a

1210
00:49:43,250 --> 00:49:41,160
lot of it this was still the period

1211
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:43,260
where you know we might just be talking

1212
00:49:47,330 --> 00:49:45,180
about five or six meetings per year just

1213
00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:47,340
hanging out and chatting anybody was

1214
00:49:52,100 --> 00:49:50,580
around about the time 52 when pass and

1215
00:49:55,070 --> 00:49:52,110
as you said blew himself up and he's a

1216
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:55,080
lab in California at the time by the way

1217
00:49:59,390 --> 00:49:57,300
he was trying to conjure up a creature

1218
00:50:01,520 --> 00:49:59,400
known as a homunculus which essentially

1219
00:50:03,620 --> 00:50:01,530
is like a manufactured life-form the

1220
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:03,630
best way to describe it is it's a little

1221
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:05,770
man imbued with

1222
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:08,050
people powers that's the sort of method

1223
00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:09,520
dictionary definition of the homunculus

1224
00:50:14,610 --> 00:50:12,220
so in other words you know in the same

1225
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:14,620
way that Crowley had conjured up this

1226
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:17,770
diminutive large headed lamb Parsons on

1227
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:19,990
the very day died was doing pretty much

1228
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:23,890
the same thing and the group reportedly

1229
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:25,510
went into sort of high gear

1230
00:50:30,450 --> 00:50:28,480
not long after Parsons died and it was

1231
00:50:34,140 --> 00:50:30,460
only a month after Parsons died that the

1232
00:50:36,540 --> 00:50:34,150
whole Washington DC wave clicked off and

1233
00:50:39,090 --> 00:50:36,550
the group saw that as being connected

1234
00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:39,100
that this was yet another of Parsons

1235
00:50:43,890 --> 00:50:41,710
these Ultimates in each case literally

1236
00:50:45,210 --> 00:50:43,900
final door opening activity when he

1237
00:50:47,010 --> 00:50:45,220
tried to conjure up this homunculus

1238
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:47,020
you're saying basically here that this

1239
00:50:52,140 --> 00:50:49,810
is the 1952 Washington UFO sightings

1240
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:52,150
right yes exactly this group actually

1241
00:50:58,020 --> 00:50:54,730
concluded that Parsons is final

1242
00:51:00,060 --> 00:50:58,030
invocation if you like in June 52 when

1243
00:51:02,610 --> 00:51:00,070
he blew himself up open the doors to

1244
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:02,620
allow the Washington wave to occur I'd

1245
00:51:06,090 --> 00:51:04,330
say what will pursue that in a moment

1246
00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:06,100
hey neighbors have you subscribed to our

1247
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:08,680
weekly podcast newsletter here's what

1248
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:11,650
you do just go to newsletter dot the

1249
00:51:16,290 --> 00:51:14,110
power cast com that's newsletter dot the

1250
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:16,300
power cast com enter your e-mail address

1251
00:51:21,390 --> 00:51:18,640
you'll get something in your email box

1252
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:21,400
that you have to acknowledge to get the

1253
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:23,200
newsletter and then you'll get your

1254
00:51:27,780 --> 00:51:25,570
issue every single week we have Nick

1255
00:51:30,570 --> 00:51:27,790
Redfern his book is called final events

1256
00:51:32,130 --> 00:51:30,580
and it's a wild and woolly theory here

1257
00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:32,140
that we're exploring and we're exploring

1258
00:51:37,710 --> 00:51:35,470
this organization the theories they had

1259
00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:37,720
our co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1260
00:51:49,550 --> 00:51:40,760
Steinberg you're in the para cast

1261
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:49,560
[Music]

1262
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,240
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1263
00:51:56,430 --> 00:51:54,160
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1264
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:56,440
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

1265
00:52:00,540 --> 00:51:58,240
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1266
00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:00,550
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

1267
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1268
00:52:07,170 --> 00:52:05,080
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1269
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,180
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on-demand right on your iPhone and the

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iPhone app today by clicking on the

1274
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:18,160
banner at GC and live.com again that's

1275
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:21,010
GC and live.com hi this is Ted Anderson

1276
00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:22,450
have you ever wondered why banks

1277
00:52:26,010 --> 00:52:24,280
stockbrokers investment advisors won't

1278
00:52:28,380 --> 00:52:26,020
talk about gold IRAs they've been

1279
00:52:30,090 --> 00:52:28,390
available since 1986 yet the financial

1280
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:30,100
industry won't recognize the value of

1281
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,810
gold for your retirement gold has

1282
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:33,760
outperformed paper investments yet no

1283
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:35,650
word about IRAs if you would like to

1284
00:53:04,150 --> 00:52:49,770
806-853-9949

1285
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:10,910
[Music]

1286
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:14,040
we're spending another hour with Nick

1287
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:16,330
Redfern the book is called final events

1288
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:19,690
and the secret government group on

1289
00:53:26,609 --> 00:53:23,170
demonic UFOs in the afterlife now this

1290
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:26,619
guy Parsons is there some documentation

1291
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:30,640
Nick Redfern about his life about how he

1292
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:33,040
died what's the official story about his

1293
00:53:36,930 --> 00:53:34,810
death that he was a wacko who blew

1294
00:53:39,450 --> 00:53:36,940
himself up or what yes the official

1295
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:39,460
story basically is the parson you know

1296
00:53:44,010 --> 00:53:41,680
was dabbling in experiments just you

1297
00:53:47,250 --> 00:53:44,020
know related to his rocket research and

1298
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:47,260
it went wrong and he blew himself up in

1299
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:50,410
a catastrophic accident and died on the

1300
00:53:54,660 --> 00:53:52,210
way to hospital I think or possibly

1301
00:53:56,550 --> 00:53:54,670
expired at the hospital but he you know

1302
00:53:58,980 --> 00:53:56,560
there was no chance of recovery I mean

1303
00:54:01,530 --> 00:53:58,990
he's half of his right arm was blown off

1304
00:54:03,329 --> 00:54:01,540
his left arm was massively broken and

1305
00:54:05,550 --> 00:54:03,339
both of his legs were shattered there

1306
00:54:07,770 --> 00:54:05,560
was a huge hole in his jaw there was

1307
00:54:10,140 --> 00:54:07,780
just no way he would have survived but

1308
00:54:12,270 --> 00:54:10,150
the group kind of saw this as two things

1309
00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:12,280
one as I mentioned you know opening the

1310
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:14,830
doors to allow the Washington DC wave to

1311
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:17,290
occur like four weeks later and the

1312
00:54:24,089 --> 00:54:19,990
other thing they concluded was that by

1313
00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:24,099
opening the door the Parsons was

1314
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,520
rewarded by basically being taken to

1315
00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:29,440
hell I suppose and you know meeting with

1316
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:32,320
with the devil or whoever and so you

1317
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:34,720
know that was sort of the the way they

1318
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:36,160
looked at it that he you know he paid

1319
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:37,750
the price with his soul but he was

1320
00:54:41,940 --> 00:54:40,240
probably pleased that's what basically

1321
00:54:43,470 --> 00:54:41,950
happened okay maybe that's what he

1322
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:43,480
intended to do but the question I have

1323
00:54:48,540 --> 00:54:46,450
about all this is why assume that what

1324
00:54:50,849 --> 00:54:48,550
he did brought about these sightings

1325
00:54:53,370 --> 00:54:50,859
there were lots of sightings before 1952

1326
00:54:55,730 --> 00:54:53,380
in Washington DC and even before this

1327
00:54:59,160 --> 00:54:55,740
group ever existed so why do we assume

1328
00:55:01,710 --> 00:54:59,170
this is a possibility well I think the

1329
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:01,720
main one is purely and simply this again

1330
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:03,010
was a belief system and they were

1331
00:55:07,980 --> 00:55:05,290
looking at strands and unfortunately

1332
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:07,990
when people get really dug into belief

1333
00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:11,170
systems they see you know threads and

1334
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:12,780
ties here there and everywhere and

1335
00:55:16,890 --> 00:55:14,770
doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong

1336
00:55:18,930 --> 00:55:16,900
but a Qui doesn't mean they're right and

1337
00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:18,940
they were just locking to other things

1338
00:55:22,740 --> 00:55:20,380
that were going on in the same time

1339
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:22,750
frame in the way that they looked at

1340
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:23,890
things going on in the

1341
00:55:28,769 --> 00:55:27,010
same time framing 46 47 when Parsons was

1342
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:28,779
doing the Babylon work and then suddenly

1343
00:55:33,900 --> 00:55:30,670
you have all these UFOs coming in and

1344
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:33,910
Parsons knowing Arnold who ushered in

1345
00:55:38,279 --> 00:55:36,670
the whole area itself so that was

1346
00:55:40,769 --> 00:55:38,289
basically the way they were looking at

1347
00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:40,779
it the idea was anything that's going to

1348
00:55:45,569 --> 00:55:43,240
happen random and lambie's time - their

1349
00:55:46,980 --> 00:55:45,579
view at least it's going to be connected

1350
00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:46,990
with Parsons activities but there's no

1351
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:50,230
proof of it now in terms of proof of

1352
00:55:53,490 --> 00:55:51,730
government interest

1353
00:55:56,750 --> 00:55:53,500
I actually got somewhere in the region

1354
00:56:00,000 --> 00:55:56,760
of about 600 Freedom of Information acts

1355
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:00,010
pages from collectively the Air Force

1356
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:03,130
Army Naval Intelligence Hughes Aircraft

1357
00:56:10,349 --> 00:56:07,599
the FBI the State Department and one or

1358
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,359
two other agencies we're demonstrating

1359
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:13,119
this whole espionage story they're also

1360
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:16,480
clearly showing that they were also very

1361
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:19,720
interested in he's a cult life and so

1362
00:56:23,759 --> 00:56:21,130
you know in other words this does

1363
00:56:25,980 --> 00:56:23,769
dovetail with the the whistleblower

1364
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:25,990
testimony in the testimony the people I

1365
00:56:30,809 --> 00:56:28,930
interviewed namely that the files don't

1366
00:56:33,569 --> 00:56:30,819
just reflect that they were watching

1367
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:33,579
Parsons because of his alleged ask me

1368
00:56:38,009 --> 00:56:34,960
espionage going on

1369
00:56:40,529 --> 00:56:38,019
they were also watching him because they

1370
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:40,539
were interested in the the groups he was

1371
00:56:45,329 --> 00:56:42,609
working with who he was influencing

1372
00:56:47,789 --> 00:56:45,339
color in California what was going on

1373
00:56:51,539 --> 00:56:47,799
you know in his occult life and you know

1374
00:56:53,339 --> 00:56:51,549
there's this whole files the detail the

1375
00:56:55,499 --> 00:56:53,349
occult aspect of his life and that don't

1376
00:56:57,450 --> 00:56:55,509
even mention the espionage operation so

1377
00:57:00,420 --> 00:56:57,460
in other words we do have proof that

1378
00:57:02,430 --> 00:57:00,430
there were people who were you know so

1379
00:57:04,349 --> 00:57:02,440
hot on the trail of what he was doing in

1380
00:57:06,029 --> 00:57:04,359
the occult world which sort of again

1381
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:06,039
ties in with his story and more

1382
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:08,079
importantly you know began like mj-12

1383
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:10,390
leaked document this is all FOIA

1384
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,609
material okay that's the problem we have

1385
00:57:17,579 --> 00:57:13,839
of course with mj-12

1386
00:57:19,019 --> 00:57:17,589
is that we're not seeing the Providence

1387
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:19,029
for those documents except for those

1388
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:20,799
things that came over in film all right

1389
00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:23,440
this guy Parsons now you said something

1390
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:25,480
earlier and maybe we didn't explore it

1391
00:57:29,579 --> 00:57:27,910
fully or maybe we can't his contacts

1392
00:57:32,460 --> 00:57:29,589
with people like Kenneth Arnold

1393
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:32,470
we have Ray Palmer involved here do they

1394
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:33,970
have any connection with this

1395
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:35,920
organization or were they just

1396
00:57:41,550 --> 00:57:37,630
therefore whatever they were doing at

1397
00:57:44,510 --> 00:57:41,560
the time no no as far as I know and to

1398
00:57:47,580 --> 00:57:44,520
the best of my knowledge you know Parma

1399
00:57:49,020 --> 00:57:47,590
Hubbard none of these people Arnold none

1400
00:57:49,950 --> 00:57:49,030
of these people were interviewed by the

1401
00:57:53,490 --> 00:57:49,960
group at all

1402
00:57:55,830 --> 00:57:53,500
Parsons reportedly was and you know they

1403
00:57:56,910 --> 00:57:55,840
were asking him questions about the fact

1404
00:57:59,100 --> 00:57:56,920
that he was linked with somebody at

1405
00:58:01,290 --> 00:57:59,110
Roswell the fact that he knew Arnold the

1406
00:58:02,550 --> 00:58:01,300
faculty knew Parma you know that they

1407
00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:02,560
were trying to put the pieces together

1408
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:04,480
but apparently they didn't interview

1409
00:58:08,610 --> 00:58:06,850
those people and they weren't part of

1410
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:08,620
this group or you know not trying to

1411
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:10,090
infiltrate ufology or anything like that

1412
00:58:14,370 --> 00:58:12,280
they were just on the periphery and the

1413
00:58:16,620 --> 00:58:14,380
group was trying to I guess interview as

1414
00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:16,630
few people as possible because it was a

1415
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,390
controversial area and you know if it

1416
00:58:23,010 --> 00:58:21,280
had got out as one of the people told me

1417
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:23,020
in the early years that he said they

1418
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:24,970
raised it for the secrecy he said it

1419
00:58:29,130 --> 00:58:26,530
might be more mundane than you want to

1420
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:29,140
hear to me but he said the reason for

1421
00:58:34,530 --> 00:58:31,330
the secrecy wasn't because of what they

1422
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:34,540
were doing it was because of the what

1423
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:36,160
the outcome would be the media or

1424
00:58:40,830 --> 00:58:38,290
whoever got hold of the notion that the

1425
00:58:43,590 --> 00:58:40,840
Pentagon's funding a project into

1426
00:58:44,820 --> 00:58:43,600
demonology and aliens we they said that

1427
00:58:47,730 --> 00:58:44,830
that was literally the reason for the

1428
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:47,740
secrecy was it was the worry of of what

1429
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:49,750
they default I would think now let me

1430
00:58:55,470 --> 00:58:51,970
ask you other things in the UFO field

1431
00:58:58,350 --> 00:58:55,480
like the Roswell crash does that enter

1432
00:59:01,650 --> 00:58:58,360
into all these meetings that occurred in

1433
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,660
the late 40s and early 50s well it

1434
00:59:06,570 --> 00:59:04,240
entered into a great extent in later

1435
00:59:09,150 --> 00:59:06,580
years now what I was told in the late

1436
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:09,160
forties was that this group because it

1437
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:10,480
was like a think-tank type of

1438
00:59:12,750 --> 00:59:12,070
organization whatever happened at

1439
00:59:14,730 --> 00:59:12,760
Roswell

1440
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:14,740
they weren't the keepers of the secret

1441
00:59:19,110 --> 00:59:17,050
but they knew something that happened at

1442
00:59:21,630 --> 00:59:19,120
Roswell that went beyond a weather

1443
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:21,640
balloon but you know they weren't privy

1444
00:59:27,690 --> 00:59:24,160
to the ultimate secret of what he was

1445
00:59:29,210 --> 00:59:27,700
but in later years he does seem as I'd

1446
00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:29,220
point out in the book but they were

1447
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:32,470
exposed to significant material on the

1448
00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:34,330
Roswell story encounters have quite some

1449
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:36,430
extraordinary conclusions but back in

1450
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:39,010
the late forties they seemed to be as

1451
00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:40,810
much in the dark you might argue they're

1452
00:59:45,810 --> 00:59:43,140
global because in the dark about Roswell

1453
00:59:48,570 --> 00:59:45,820
okay speaking of Roswell what were their

1454
00:59:49,609 --> 00:59:48,580
conclusions then well bear in mind that

1455
00:59:53,569 --> 00:59:49,619
these conclusions

1456
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:53,579
reached by the like late 80s mid 1990s

1457
00:59:59,239 --> 00:59:55,440
when the group had gone from being just

1458
01:00:01,910 --> 00:59:59,249
a bunch of people interested in the

1459
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:01,920
occult religious side to a group that

1460
01:00:07,099 --> 01:00:04,049
was largely dominated by extreme

1461
01:00:09,470 --> 01:00:07,109
fundamentalist Christians who saw demons

1462
01:00:12,339 --> 01:00:09,480
behind every doorway it was a very very

1463
01:00:14,930 --> 01:00:12,349
different setup and scenario and

1464
01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:14,940
membership to the early days but what

1465
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:17,640
they basically concluded was about

1466
01:00:22,370 --> 01:00:19,650
Roswell was two things one relative to

1467
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:22,380
the material be like the debris found at

1468
01:00:26,690 --> 01:00:23,970
the crash site and the other one

1469
01:00:29,150 --> 01:00:26,700
relative to the bodies the so-called

1470
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:29,160
alien bodies now in terms of the former

1471
01:00:35,569 --> 01:00:32,640
they concluded that there never was a

1472
01:00:37,299 --> 01:00:35,579
roswell quote UFO crash they didn't

1473
01:00:41,089 --> 01:00:37,309
think there's any sort of crash accident

1474
01:00:42,529 --> 01:00:41,099
mishap shoot down of a UFO or collision

1475
01:00:45,529 --> 01:00:42,539
with a mogul balloon or anything like

1476
01:00:47,539 --> 01:00:45,539
that what they concluded that the the

1477
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:47,549
weird memory metal found at Roswell was

1478
01:00:53,210 --> 01:00:49,529
literally the work of like demonic

1479
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:53,220
alchemists who I guess ingeniously

1480
01:00:58,489 --> 01:00:55,680
created this material and literally

1481
01:01:01,279 --> 01:00:58,499
surreptitiously placed it on the ground

1482
01:01:05,269 --> 01:01:01,289
on the foster ranch where the rancher

1483
01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:05,279
Mac Brazel found it within you - almost

1484
01:01:10,970 --> 01:01:07,710
like a Trojan horse the idea was it

1485
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:10,980
looked like a fake crash of a UFO but it

1486
01:01:16,009 --> 01:01:13,680
was really these entities engaging in

1487
01:01:18,109 --> 01:01:16,019
what some people in biblical terms would

1488
01:01:21,380 --> 01:01:18,119
call demonic magic what they actually

1489
01:01:23,809 --> 01:01:21,390
described as like one conjuring they

1490
01:01:25,849 --> 01:01:23,819
conjured up the material yeah but in

1491
01:01:28,190 --> 01:01:25,859
their view that it could possibly be

1492
01:01:30,589 --> 01:01:28,200
explained as like a technological

1493
01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:30,599
alchemy you know it wasn't something

1494
01:01:35,359 --> 01:01:32,609
that you could dismiss by just saying oh

1495
01:01:37,609 --> 01:01:35,369
it's the devil's magic which they do

1496
01:01:39,609 --> 01:01:37,619
basically what they concluded but they

1497
01:01:41,749 --> 01:01:39,619
felt that there was like a technology

1498
01:01:45,380 --> 01:01:41,759
behind you or it could be explained by

1499
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:45,390
science and they concluded that this was

1500
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:48,569
sort of to lure us into the idea that

1501
01:01:53,479 --> 01:01:51,529
what had crashed was a vulnerable

1502
01:01:55,519 --> 01:01:53,489
extraterrestrial spacecraft and it would

1503
01:01:57,799 --> 01:01:55,529
sort of spread the meme amongst the

1504
01:01:59,989 --> 01:01:57,809
government the UFOs are amongst us they

1505
01:02:02,420 --> 01:01:59,999
were alien and they crash now and again

1506
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:02,430
and again this was to instill the belief

1507
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:03,690
system in a

1508
01:02:09,049 --> 01:02:06,079
which the group believes this demonic

1509
01:02:10,670 --> 01:02:09,059
hierarchy wishes to do to deceive us

1510
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:10,680
into believing there one thing when

1511
01:02:13,579 --> 01:02:12,059
there actually something else so

1512
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,589
basically they want to convey the

1513
01:02:18,859 --> 01:02:15,119
impression that we have benevolent

1514
01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:18,869
advanced aliens from Alpha Centauri Zeta

1515
01:02:22,849 --> 01:02:21,270
Reticuli or whatever not these demonic

1516
01:02:24,890 --> 01:02:22,859
creatures we'll get into more of this in

1517
01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:24,900
a moment we have Nick Redfern the book

1518
01:02:29,930 --> 01:02:27,420
from anomalous press is called final

1519
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:29,940
events and the secret government group

1520
01:02:36,859 --> 01:02:33,260
on demonic UFOs in the afterlife and

1521
01:02:39,620 --> 01:02:36,869
we've only just begun folks a lot more

1522
01:02:42,140 --> 01:02:39,630
is happening our co-host is Chris

1523
01:02:53,359 --> 01:02:42,150
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1524
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:53,369
Burrow cast is there a secret UFO agenda

1525
01:02:58,760 --> 01:02:55,980
to strange creatures from the darkest

1526
01:03:01,040 --> 01:02:58,770
corners of the mind roam the earth is

1527
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:01,050
there evidence for mind control time

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01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:03,450
travel or devious government

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01:03:09,049 --> 01:03:06,540
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

1530
01:03:11,660 --> 01:03:09,059
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

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activity and important phenomena when

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you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

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Friday simply send an email with your

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dotnet that's mr. UFO at web TV dotnet

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1616
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:38,890
nine one two six zero eight or visit

1617
01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:41,890
hemp usa.org it's a great way to change

1618
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:44,380
your life so call 9 zero eight six nine

1619
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:48,010
one 2608 or visit us at hemp usa.org

1620
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:50,510
today

1621
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:52,710
America's number one source for

1622
01:07:05,210 --> 01:06:55,680
independent talk radio for over a decade

1623
01:07:07,070 --> 01:07:05,220
we are the GC and radio network we want

1624
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:07,080
to hear from you if you have a comment

1625
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:08,910
or question about the para cast send it

1626
01:07:14,690 --> 01:07:11,610
to news at the para cast com

1627
01:07:16,730 --> 01:07:14,700
that's news at the para cast calm and if

1628
01:07:18,050 --> 01:07:16,740
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1629
01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:18,060
have hundreds of shows for you to

1630
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:20,940
download direct from the para cast com

1631
01:07:30,470 --> 01:07:24,570
that's the para cast calm or check us

1632
01:07:32,359 --> 01:07:30,480
out on iTunes in our previous section

1633
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:32,369
Chris O'Brien is trying to sound as

1634
01:07:39,530 --> 01:07:37,290
demonic as he possibly can well we can

1635
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:39,540
try that one too I'm Jean Steinberg

1636
01:07:43,940 --> 01:07:41,730
you're in the para cast Nick Redfern one

1637
01:07:45,890 --> 01:07:43,950
of our co-hosts is our guest because he

1638
01:07:50,090 --> 01:07:45,900
has a new book out called final events

1639
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:50,100
now in the course of the lead up to this

1640
01:07:55,550 --> 01:07:52,890
interview someone started a friend in

1641
01:07:58,460 --> 01:07:55,560
the para cast forums that forum dr. para

1642
01:08:00,830 --> 01:07:58,470
cast comm where they talk about the book

1643
01:08:03,020 --> 01:08:00,840
either having read it or not having read

1644
01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:03,030
it Chris you've been examining those

1645
01:08:07,340 --> 01:08:05,609
forum posts anything there weren't a

1646
01:08:09,620 --> 01:08:07,350
question at this point well at this

1647
01:08:13,220 --> 01:08:09,630
point no I think a lot of the comments

1648
01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:13,230
had to do more with the general subject

1649
01:08:17,599 --> 01:08:14,880
of looking at things

1650
01:08:20,599 --> 01:08:17,609
in terms of you fo logically from a you

1651
01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:20,609
know solely belief based perspective and

1652
01:08:25,730 --> 01:08:22,710
I think obviously we need to get into

1653
01:08:27,650 --> 01:08:25,740
that but I'm absolutely fascinated by by

1654
01:08:30,650 --> 01:08:27,660
the way that Nick has been able to

1655
01:08:34,910 --> 01:08:30,660
uncover this this absolutely tantalizing

1656
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:34,920
web of of events and in persons involved

1657
01:08:40,610 --> 01:08:37,560
in looking at the UFO phenomenon from

1658
01:08:42,499 --> 01:08:40,620
purely an occult point of view I think

1659
01:08:43,849 --> 01:08:42,509
the the period that we're now in our

1660
01:08:46,579 --> 01:08:43,859
timeline know that they were now

1661
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:46,589
entering in is very crucial and I think

1662
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:49,770
it ends with our good our good which in

1663
01:08:55,490 --> 01:08:53,250
England civil leek who did a channeling

1664
01:08:57,170 --> 01:08:55,500
some years later that was highly

1665
01:08:59,390 --> 01:08:57,180
influential with the the later

1666
01:09:01,400 --> 01:08:59,400
incarnation of the Collins elite as

1667
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:01,410
they're called but Nick why don't why

1668
01:09:04,570 --> 01:09:02,480
don't you go ahead and just

1669
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:04,580
continue on the timeline because we're

1670
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:06,410
getting into some areas I think that are

1671
01:09:10,809 --> 01:09:08,089
very crucial in terms of how the

1672
01:09:14,769 --> 01:09:10,819
thinking went from being open-minded and

1673
01:09:17,950 --> 01:09:14,779
non judgmental or subjective into into a

1674
01:09:20,940 --> 01:09:17,960
very subjective I'm a belief based sort

1675
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:20,950
of bent why don't you continue yeah sure

1676
01:09:24,789 --> 01:09:23,120
yes I'll just finish off on the Roswell

1677
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:24,799
thing when they were talking about that

1678
01:09:27,970 --> 01:09:26,480
was they're basically includes on the

1679
01:09:30,999 --> 01:09:27,980
memory metal that it was sort of like a

1680
01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:31,009
carefully planted Trojan horse now as

1681
01:09:35,079 --> 01:09:32,960
far as the bodies were concerned the

1682
01:09:37,630 --> 01:09:35,089
interesting thing is is that most of the

1683
01:09:39,340 --> 01:09:37,640
story that I got was I guess belief

1684
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:39,350
system based throughout the book I've

1685
01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:41,690
really reproduce a number of official

1686
01:09:45,550 --> 01:09:43,790
documents such as the Parsons files that

1687
01:09:47,650 --> 01:09:45,560
have been Declassified I was given

1688
01:09:50,170 --> 01:09:47,660
access to one document that I guess he's

1689
01:09:52,210 --> 01:09:50,180
like a demonic Collins relate equivalent

1690
01:09:55,060 --> 01:09:52,220
of an mj-12 type document which talks

1691
01:09:58,330 --> 01:09:55,070
about the Roswell crash and the bodies

1692
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:58,340
but they don't ever refer to in the body

1693
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:00,320
in the reports to the bodies being like

1694
01:10:03,970 --> 01:10:02,450
alien bodies extraterrestrial corpses

1695
01:10:06,340 --> 01:10:03,980
they just talk about biological

1696
01:10:07,540 --> 01:10:06,350
materials and when I spoke with one of

1697
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:07,550
the guys he said well there's a good

1698
01:10:12,810 --> 01:10:10,370
reason for that they concluded that the

1699
01:10:16,030 --> 01:10:12,820
body found at Roswell where essentially

1700
01:10:18,220 --> 01:10:16,040
body like but they they don't believe

1701
01:10:20,290 --> 01:10:18,230
they ever had any form of life they were

1702
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:20,300
almost like an extraterrestrial demonic

1703
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:22,850
Jackalope you know where you go to

1704
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:25,250
carnivals and circuses and you'll see

1705
01:10:30,100 --> 01:10:28,130
like a stuffed rabbit with deer horns

1706
01:10:31,630 --> 01:10:30,110
put on in his head and like an

1707
01:10:34,090 --> 01:10:31,640
alligator's tail you know just looks

1708
01:10:36,790 --> 01:10:34,100
like a weird creature and they concluded

1709
01:10:40,750 --> 01:10:36,800
that something could essentially has the

1710
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:40,760
ability to I guess manipulate DNA at a

1711
01:10:45,250 --> 01:10:43,610
genetic level almost like create what

1712
01:10:47,170 --> 01:10:45,260
looks like something that once lived

1713
01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:47,180
because it's made at a flesh blood bone

1714
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:50,450
DNA etc but he'd never had any life it

1715
01:10:55,420 --> 01:10:52,970
was like an ingeniously created doll

1716
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:55,430
it's like creating a fake dead entity

1717
01:11:00,160 --> 01:10:58,400
yes exactly and what's interesting is

1718
01:11:02,530 --> 01:11:00,170
one of the reasons why they again

1719
01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:02,540
concluded this was the case was that you

1720
01:11:05,979 --> 01:11:04,670
know as I mentioned Jack Parsons himself

1721
01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:05,989
tried to conjure up one of these

1722
01:11:10,570 --> 01:11:08,000
entities on the day died a homunculus

1723
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:10,580
they also mentioned earlier Theodore von

1724
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,489
Karman who again was a big rocket

1725
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:15,840
pioneer actually some of you

1726
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:17,369
Carson's work closely with him who

1727
01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:19,440
became a father figure to Parsons

1728
01:11:25,580 --> 01:11:22,860
Theodore von Karman had a relative back

1729
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:25,590
in Prague centuries ago who supposedly

1730
01:11:29,899 --> 01:11:27,449
conjured up a golem which again he's

1731
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:29,909
like another manufactured life form and

1732
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:32,400
so this the fact that Parsons was doing

1733
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:34,110
this on the day he died and that he's

1734
01:11:37,939 --> 01:11:36,090
very own father figure Theodore von

1735
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:37,949
Karman had a relative who tried to

1736
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:40,650
create a manufactured life form again

1737
01:11:46,100 --> 01:11:43,290
led them to believe that this theory of

1738
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:46,110
these non-existent life forms that are

1739
01:11:51,109 --> 01:11:48,000
being carefully laid out amongst the

1740
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:51,119
memory metal we're also a part of this

1741
01:11:56,300 --> 01:11:53,520
whole Trojan horse ruse and the fact

1742
01:11:57,950 --> 01:11:56,310
that Parsons and von Karma in the thick

1743
01:12:00,260 --> 01:11:57,960
of it was more evidence of like a

1744
01:12:03,649 --> 01:12:00,270
demonic things that could be backtracked

1745
01:12:05,450 --> 01:12:03,659
to Parsons so all this I suspect he's

1746
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:05,460
one of the reasons why over time the

1747
01:12:10,820 --> 01:12:08,000
group went from being open-minded

1748
01:12:13,790 --> 01:12:10,830
intelligence personnel who were looking

1749
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:13,800
into occult aspects of the story to

1750
01:12:17,300 --> 01:12:15,420
determine what was going on and see if

1751
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:17,310
there are any military applications etc

1752
01:12:24,410 --> 01:12:21,360
so becoming fear driven people who were

1753
01:12:26,689 --> 01:12:24,420
basically swamped by the fear that this

1754
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:26,699
was really going on and over time that

1755
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:28,980
their views became radical to the point

1756
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:31,710
where the blur between being open-minded

1757
01:12:36,229 --> 01:12:34,980
and being absolutely certain this is

1758
01:12:37,820 --> 01:12:36,239
what's going on and this is the

1759
01:12:39,589 --> 01:12:37,830
countdown to the final battle between

1760
01:12:41,810 --> 01:12:39,599
good and evil somewhere you know the

1761
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:41,820
scales were tipped so to speak is this

1762
01:12:46,970 --> 01:12:44,159
organization still in existence today

1763
01:12:48,169 --> 01:12:46,980
well this is the interesting thing I

1764
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:48,179
mean I mentioned this towards the very

1765
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:50,400
end of the book it just seemed to be in

1766
01:12:55,010 --> 01:12:52,530
existence but what I was told is that

1767
01:12:58,339 --> 01:12:55,020
all the projects are being closed down

1768
01:13:01,339 --> 01:12:58,349
or in on hold status and the reason why

1769
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:01,349
is because the groups or the events of

1770
01:13:07,250 --> 01:13:05,369
9/11 as being the beginning of the the

1771
01:13:09,290 --> 01:13:07,260
literal the final battle hence the title

1772
01:13:10,970 --> 01:13:09,300
of the book final event and they viewed

1773
01:13:12,589 --> 01:13:10,980
that you know this isn't just like a

1774
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:12,599
second world war the first world war

1775
01:13:18,770 --> 01:13:15,690
that what's going on now is the literal

1776
01:13:21,890 --> 01:13:18,780
final battle of good versus evil which

1777
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:21,900
will culminate in the UFO showing

1778
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:23,760
themselves on mass to try and deceive

1779
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:26,159
the entire world and those who fall for

1780
01:13:29,750 --> 01:13:28,110
it will be taken to hell and those who

1781
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:29,760
don't for its you know will be

1782
01:13:33,950 --> 01:13:32,159
receive open arms from Jesus and God now

1783
01:13:37,490 --> 01:13:33,960
this isn't anything new this kind of

1784
01:13:38,509 --> 01:13:37,500
theory yes lying lots of people there ya

1785
01:13:41,629 --> 01:13:38,519
know there's nothing new about the

1786
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:41,639
theory that the difference is we're

1787
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:43,199
talking there people in government and

1788
01:13:47,959 --> 01:13:45,840
some of these people influencing even

1789
01:13:49,850 --> 01:13:47,969
higher are papal in government but yeah

1790
01:13:52,069 --> 01:13:49,860
they they concluded what a lot of people

1791
01:13:54,319 --> 01:13:52,079
suggested you know I mean you can find a

1792
01:13:56,750 --> 01:13:54,329
number of really well-known religious

1793
01:13:59,750 --> 01:13:56,760
leaders who commented on this very issue

1794
01:14:02,689 --> 01:13:59,760
that they believe you know UFOs are

1795
01:14:04,819 --> 01:14:02,699
basically demonic deceptions but the

1796
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:04,829
this particular group put their work

1797
01:14:09,169 --> 01:14:07,199
apparently on hold post 9/11 because

1798
01:14:10,879 --> 01:14:09,179
they came to the conclusion that they

1799
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,889
had the answers it wasn't a theory

1800
01:14:14,839 --> 01:14:12,719
anymore this is what we know what's

1801
01:14:16,879 --> 01:14:14,849
going on there's no point doing anything

1802
01:14:19,310 --> 01:14:16,889
else other than try and save the souls

1803
01:14:21,950 --> 01:14:19,320
of everybody by instilling like a

1804
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:21,960
radical Christian fundamentalist belief

1805
01:14:26,419 --> 01:14:24,210
system in everybody basically you know

1806
01:14:28,250 --> 01:14:26,429
putting them in a literal fear of God

1807
01:14:30,379 --> 01:14:28,260
because the group came to an interesting

1808
01:14:33,109 --> 01:14:30,389
conclusion that being that these

1809
01:14:34,939 --> 01:14:33,119
entities can actually be held at bay by

1810
01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:34,949
denying their existence in other words

1811
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:37,320
belief systems can actually keep them at

1812
01:14:42,049 --> 01:14:39,210
bay which almost makes these things

1813
01:14:44,509 --> 01:14:42,059
sound Tulpa like you know belief in them

1814
01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:44,519
gives them power a lack of belief or

1815
01:14:48,890 --> 01:14:46,440
denial of belief prevents them from

1816
01:14:50,990 --> 01:14:48,900
acting to the extent that they

1817
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:51,000
potentially able to so if the group

1818
01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:53,010
concluded this we're getting very

1819
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:54,900
controversial areas in the book towards

1820
01:14:59,569 --> 01:14:56,730
the very end the idea of trying to

1821
01:15:02,419 --> 01:14:59,579
slowly or quickly who knows instill a

1822
01:15:04,879 --> 01:15:02,429
stronger and stronger grip on the

1823
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:04,889
population by religion by further

1824
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:07,260
extending the involvement of religion in

1825
01:15:11,450 --> 01:15:09,210
government and in the military to the

1826
01:15:13,540 --> 01:15:11,460
point where today's five-year-olds by

1827
01:15:16,129 --> 01:15:13,550
the time they're 25 are full-on

1828
01:15:18,020 --> 01:15:16,139
fundamentalist within the entire United

1829
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:18,030
States living in fear of God and they

1830
01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:20,820
felt that it's worth the sacrifice if

1831
01:15:25,069 --> 01:15:23,070
they have such a belief system that he

1832
01:15:26,839 --> 01:15:25,079
keeps these entities a bank just I

1833
01:15:28,700 --> 01:15:26,849
remind you that we're looking for a

1834
01:15:31,339 --> 01:15:28,710
sales person to join us here in the

1835
01:15:33,770 --> 01:15:31,349
power cast send your resume to sales at

1836
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:33,780
the power-on cast com that sales at the

1837
01:15:38,180 --> 01:15:36,210
power cast calm maybe you'll become part

1838
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:38,190
of our team Nick Redfern is author of

1839
01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:40,050
final events the co-host is Chris

1840
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:42,400
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1841
01:15:54,419 --> 01:15:52,090
Ericka's ray Perkins a reclusive veteran

1842
01:15:56,700 --> 01:15:54,429
burned out from the Gulf War lives

1843
01:15:58,890 --> 01:15:56,710
tortured by relentless perplexing

1844
01:16:01,500 --> 01:15:58,900
nightmares nightmares of a horrific

1845
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:01,510
battle in deep space and of a mysterious

1846
01:16:06,209 --> 01:16:03,370
woman suffering an agony for her

1847
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:06,219
devastated world a woman not yet born

1848
01:16:13,620 --> 01:16:11,040
calling across centuries to him then a

1849
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:13,630
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1850
01:16:18,209 --> 01:16:16,960
chance to alter the universe attacted of

1851
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:18,219
the rock

1852
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the former fiction editor for Star Wars

1853
01:16:24,330 --> 01:16:22,090
and Indiana Jones Robert Simpson writes

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the soul of the novel attack of the

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1880
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1885
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1886
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1887
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1888
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1889
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1890
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1891
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1892
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1893
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1896
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1897
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1898
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1899
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1900
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1901
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1902
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1903
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1904
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1905
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1906
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1907
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1908
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1909
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1910
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1911
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1912
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1913
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1914
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1915
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1916
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1917
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1918
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1919
01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:45,440
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1920
01:18:51,939 --> 01:18:46,190
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1921
01:18:53,919 --> 01:18:51,949
organic herbal formula for heart health

1922
01:18:56,740 --> 01:18:53,929
is heart and body extract my name is

1923
01:18:59,800 --> 01:18:56,750
Stan and I'm 68 years old and I live in

1924
01:19:02,740 --> 01:18:59,810
Vermont in the spring of 2003 I started

1925
01:19:05,020 --> 01:19:02,750
to have problems with my heart it felt

1926
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:05,030
like my heart was pounding made me feel

1927
01:19:09,729 --> 01:19:07,730
breathless I tried many many different

1928
01:19:10,300 --> 01:19:09,739
things to try to get some help for

1929
01:19:12,100 --> 01:19:10,310
myself

1930
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:12,110
nothing did anything heart and body

1931
01:19:16,689 --> 01:19:14,690
extract is very powerful very effective

1932
01:19:19,390 --> 01:19:16,699
and works quickly I fell one of Sharon's

1933
01:19:22,270 --> 01:19:19,400
ads an ordered heart and body extract I

1934
01:19:25,950 --> 01:19:22,280
noticed a difference quickly within days

1935
01:19:29,379 --> 01:19:25,960
the episodes became less frequent

1936
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:29,389
completely usually you find a 30 day or

1937
01:19:34,209 --> 01:19:31,760
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1938
01:19:36,399 --> 01:19:34,219
comes with a lifetime 100% ironclad

1939
01:19:38,979 --> 01:19:36,409
money-back guarantee details at HB

1940
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:38,989
extract calm or call eight six six two

1941
01:19:43,300 --> 01:19:41,150
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1942
01:19:45,669 --> 01:19:43,310
eight six six two nine five five three

1943
01:19:47,859 --> 01:19:45,679
zero five eight six six two nine five

1944
01:19:51,459 --> 01:19:47,869
five three zero five four heart and body

1945
01:19:53,979 --> 01:19:51,469
extract tired of searching for great

1946
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:53,989
talk radio and I think it really does

1947
01:19:59,770 --> 01:19:55,040
make a difference

1948
01:19:59,780 --> 01:20:03,660
[Music]

1949
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:06,790
you've entered another dimension you've

1950
01:20:18,290 --> 01:20:08,130
entered the guest

1951
01:20:23,729 --> 01:20:21,270
our guess is Nick Redfern offeror final

1952
01:20:26,010 --> 01:20:23,739
events Chris O'Brien co-host I'm gene

1953
01:20:28,169 --> 01:20:26,020
Steinberger in the power cast as you

1954
01:20:30,959 --> 01:20:28,179
were talking Nick I got to thinking

1955
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:30,969
about a relative my wife's uncle was a

1956
01:20:36,419 --> 01:20:33,280
guy named Lewis Kaplan who was one of

1957
01:20:38,910 --> 01:20:36,429
the ringleaders or heads of a Jews for

1958
01:20:42,300 --> 01:20:38,920
Jesus organization and some of this

1959
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:42,310
endtime speculation was part of their

1960
01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:44,080
belief system in fact it was a science

1961
01:20:48,660 --> 01:20:46,960
fiction book that one of their officials

1962
01:20:51,540 --> 01:20:48,670
had released which says basically the

1963
01:20:54,419 --> 01:20:51,550
same thing that UFOs are demonic

1964
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:54,429
apparitions so this is not uncommon

1965
01:20:58,890 --> 01:20:56,410
theory folks if you haven't heard it

1966
01:21:01,560 --> 01:20:58,900
it's not coming full-blown from Nick

1967
01:21:03,630 --> 01:21:01,570
Redfern there are other people who hold

1968
01:21:05,790 --> 01:21:03,640
to this belief system let me get to the

1969
01:21:08,580 --> 01:21:05,800
core of it though here based on your

1970
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:08,590
research Nick you're certain this agency

1971
01:21:12,090 --> 01:21:10,330
this organization this think-tank

1972
01:21:14,340 --> 01:21:12,100
existed oh yeah there's no doubt about

1973
01:21:16,020 --> 01:21:14,350
that the reason I know is because I

1974
01:21:18,060 --> 01:21:16,030
wouldn't there's no way I would have got

1975
01:21:20,790 --> 01:21:18,070
the story or the people had it not been

1976
01:21:22,830 --> 01:21:20,800
for the fact that rabo che was also

1977
01:21:25,020 --> 01:21:22,840
approached by some of these people in

1978
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:25,030
other words it wasn't a case of people

1979
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:27,570
approaching me with a you know a

1980
01:21:32,370 --> 01:21:30,370
disinformation ploy and me just gullibly

1981
01:21:35,250 --> 01:21:32,380
buying into it I had to go out and look

1982
01:21:37,740 --> 01:21:35,260
for these people because 20 years ago

1983
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:37,750
they'd approached rev O'Shea and Ray had

1984
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:39,130
just mentioned it in a couple of

1985
01:21:43,709 --> 01:21:41,290
lectures and things like that but hadn't

1986
01:21:45,900 --> 01:21:43,719
really done anything to a great extent

1987
01:21:48,030 --> 01:21:45,910
with the story so in other words you

1988
01:21:49,860 --> 01:21:48,040
know this it wasn't a case of why these

1989
01:21:52,110 --> 01:21:49,870
people suddenly approaching it Redfern

1990
01:21:54,150 --> 01:21:52,120
had Ray not being approached

1991
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:54,160
I would never would have gone after the

1992
01:21:58,169 --> 01:21:56,410
story so in other words there's evidence

1993
01:22:01,410 --> 01:21:58,179
of other people having been approached

1994
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:01,420
by this group decades before me you know

1995
01:22:05,459 --> 01:22:03,730
next year will be twenty years when Ray

1996
01:22:08,130 --> 01:22:05,469
was approached by them so you know this

1997
01:22:10,169 --> 01:22:08,140
demonstrates it ease it has been in

1998
01:22:14,580 --> 01:22:10,179
existence for some time now I'm some

1999
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:14,590
potential doc sort of very how and I put

2000
01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:18,130
it intriguing sort of claims that I've

2001
01:22:22,530 --> 01:22:19,840
you know been able to uncover in my

2002
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:22,540
research in terms of law enforcement

2003
01:22:28,229 --> 01:22:25,330
officials who have expertise in a khole

2004
01:22:29,180 --> 01:22:28,239
crime and the ritual nature of a cold

2005
01:22:32,060 --> 01:22:29,190
crime

2006
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:32,070
also claimed to have been approached by

2007
01:22:39,380 --> 01:22:35,760
a very shadowy governmental group that

2008
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:39,390
wanted to know more about their some

2009
01:22:44,750 --> 01:22:42,810
sort of demonic potential involvement in

2010
01:22:47,540 --> 01:22:44,760
the cattle mutilation phenomenon which

2011
01:22:50,420 --> 01:22:47,550
I've always wondered about for years and

2012
01:22:53,180 --> 01:22:50,430
and this in some way shape or form is

2013
01:22:56,959 --> 01:22:53,190
validating these people's stories to me

2014
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,969
so one thing I always find interesting

2015
01:23:00,770 --> 01:22:58,800
about cattle mutilations you know we

2016
01:23:02,780 --> 01:23:00,780
have heard these ties and stories that

2017
01:23:04,700 --> 01:23:02,790
means to be a cult and I think you know

2018
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:04,710
people always talking about organs being

2019
01:23:09,470 --> 01:23:06,449
removed with surgical precision and

2020
01:23:11,780 --> 01:23:09,480
blood taken etc not many people take

2021
01:23:13,939 --> 01:23:11,790
note of the fact that blood has always

2022
01:23:17,180 --> 01:23:13,949
been seen as like a sacred part of

2023
01:23:19,070 --> 01:23:17,190
ritual and sacrificial ritual you know

2024
01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:19,080
people in the UFO community being said

2025
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:21,120
well the Bloods being taken because the

2026
01:23:26,510 --> 01:23:25,050
aliens DNA is compatible to ours or you

2027
01:23:28,430 --> 01:23:26,520
know it's being done for biological

2028
01:23:29,959 --> 01:23:28,440
warfare purposes may need to analyze the

2029
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:29,969
blood and maybe there's maybe there is

2030
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:32,250
something to both those scenarios but I

2031
01:23:35,300 --> 01:23:33,840
think more emphasis needs to be placed

2032
01:23:37,790 --> 01:23:35,310
on the fact that if you go back into

2033
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:37,800
ancient mythologies and cultures blood

2034
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:41,360
was seen as like a vital life force and

2035
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:44,370
you know the ritualistic aspect of

2036
01:23:49,459 --> 01:23:47,489
removing the blood from cows no less you

2037
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,469
know that may have more of a bearing on

2038
01:23:54,260 --> 01:23:52,560
the reality of what actually lies at the

2039
01:23:55,670 --> 01:23:54,270
heart and the cattle mutilation

2040
01:23:57,890 --> 01:23:55,680
phenomenon than anything else having

2041
01:24:00,380 --> 01:23:57,900
does this also have some resemblance to

2042
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:00,390
our fixation on vampires these days it

2043
01:24:04,700 --> 01:24:02,250
seems that anything about vampires

2044
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:04,710
becomes popular certainly the TV shows

2045
01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:07,050
like True Blood and of course the

2046
01:24:13,100 --> 01:24:10,800
Twilight movies well yeah I mean I think

2047
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:13,110
he can he can do I think you know there

2048
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:14,370
are certain there's no doubt that

2049
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:17,010
certain archetypes in society and

2050
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:19,530
history and folklore that we see time

2051
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:22,650
again we see predatory entities you know

2052
01:24:27,740 --> 01:24:24,960
for example the group that the Collins

2053
01:24:30,260 --> 01:24:27,750
early group they apparently studied and

2054
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:30,270
consulted ancient Babylonian texts books

2055
01:24:35,900 --> 01:24:33,570
in the 14 and 1500s on entities that

2056
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:35,910
they believed were the same ones that

2057
01:24:39,770 --> 01:24:37,410
today we would call the graves that they

2058
01:24:42,970 --> 01:24:39,780
just looked and appeared and manifest in

2059
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:42,980
a different form you know we're talking

2060
01:24:49,339 --> 01:24:46,650
that's everything from like Lilith to

2061
01:24:51,799 --> 01:24:49,349
goblins to jeans and they they actually

2062
01:24:54,740 --> 01:24:51,809
didn't believe that people 500 years ago

2063
01:24:57,439 --> 01:24:54,750
or 2,000 years ago we're reporting them

2064
01:24:58,970 --> 01:24:57,449
in ways that they believed they appeared

2065
01:25:01,609 --> 01:24:58,980
and that were at they're actually

2066
01:25:04,279 --> 01:25:01,619
mistakingly seeing aliens they actually

2067
01:25:06,470 --> 01:25:04,289
believe that 2,000 years ago they did

2068
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:06,480
appear in the form of Mitchell Jin's and

2069
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:08,489
500 years ago in the form of goblins in

2070
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:10,800
other words their literal appearance has

2071
01:25:16,100 --> 01:25:14,010
changed to suit the people of the day so

2072
01:25:16,700 --> 01:25:16,110
in other words they seem to be if the

2073
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:16,710
story is true

2074
01:25:23,779 --> 01:25:20,730
manipulating core belief systems of

2075
01:25:25,549 --> 01:25:23,789
predatory entities bloodsuckers and all

2076
01:25:28,180 --> 01:25:25,559
sorts of other creatures you know if you

2077
01:25:30,589 --> 01:25:28,190
look at mythology there's several

2078
01:25:33,140 --> 01:25:30,599
archetypal creatures there are large

2079
01:25:36,220 --> 01:25:33,150
winged humanoids the hairy man-like

2080
01:25:39,529 --> 01:25:36,230
Bigfoot in the Yeti light monsters

2081
01:25:42,020 --> 01:25:39,539
werewolves vampires you know that there

2082
01:25:45,169 --> 01:25:42,030
are these core groups and the Collins

2083
01:25:46,279 --> 01:25:45,179
early concluded that's you know the it's

2084
01:25:49,609 --> 01:25:46,289
the same things in different

2085
01:25:52,009 --> 01:25:49,619
incarnations pulling upon our belief

2086
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:52,019
systems and and the these core belief

2087
01:25:59,569 --> 01:25:54,960
systems and ideas that we have if you

2088
01:26:02,299 --> 01:25:59,579
like ballet 101 yeah exactly exactly

2089
01:26:03,740 --> 01:26:02,309
yeah but if we asked shock fellay about

2090
01:26:07,819 --> 01:26:03,750
this and he actually appeared on the

2091
01:26:10,129 --> 01:26:07,829
power cast once believe it or not do you

2092
01:26:12,859 --> 01:26:10,139
think he'd go along with what this group

2093
01:26:14,209 --> 01:26:12,869
theorizes in some fashion I think Jack

2094
01:26:17,359 --> 01:26:14,219
would go along with it in the sense

2095
01:26:19,339 --> 01:26:17,369
that's where Jack's messengers of

2096
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:19,349
deception and the Collins elite both

2097
01:26:23,060 --> 01:26:21,690
agree and actually come to all my

2098
01:26:25,370 --> 01:26:23,070
unified points

2099
01:26:29,299 --> 01:26:25,380
he's the fact that the UFO phenomenon is

2100
01:26:31,549 --> 01:26:29,309
deceptive and he's manipulating people

2101
01:26:34,209 --> 01:26:31,559
for a purpose that's not entirely clear

2102
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:34,219
now it sounds like the church do mean it

2103
01:26:40,819 --> 01:26:38,449
yeah no I no idea what you know Jack's

2104
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,829
religious beliefs are or if you haven't

2105
01:26:44,569 --> 01:26:42,719
know and I don't want to put words in

2106
01:26:47,330 --> 01:26:44,579
his mouth and I certainly won't but I

2107
01:26:50,359 --> 01:26:47,340
would say that you know he's messengers

2108
01:26:53,779 --> 01:26:50,369
of deception largely suggest that

2109
01:26:55,759 --> 01:26:53,789
there's like a human elements in you

2110
01:26:56,419 --> 01:26:55,769
know the whole deceptive angle that it's

2111
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:56,429
done too

2112
01:27:02,870 --> 01:27:00,719
potentially alter or influence society

2113
01:27:05,060 --> 01:27:02,880
and the populace at large but if you

2114
01:27:07,010 --> 01:27:05,070
substitute the human element demonic

2115
01:27:09,050 --> 01:27:07,020
elements there's actually not that much

2116
01:27:11,209 --> 01:27:09,060
difference you know and I think that's

2117
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:11,219
where the two cross paths

2118
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:14,130
they're both Jacque and the Collins are

2119
01:27:18,649 --> 01:27:16,010
late we're talking about deceptive

2120
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:18,659
entities whether humans or something

2121
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:22,710
supernatural trying to provoke belief

2122
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:25,380
systems and manipulate society but we

2123
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:27,690
would know whether the deception is

2124
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,890
being caused by ET by demonic creatures

2125
01:27:35,540 --> 01:27:33,600
maybe just the suggestion of demonic

2126
01:27:37,580 --> 01:27:35,550
creatures might itself be a deception

2127
01:27:40,100 --> 01:27:37,590
well that's right I mean you know that

2128
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:40,110
the ironic thing is you know you could

2129
01:27:44,689 --> 01:27:42,690
look at some of the things that are be

2130
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:44,699
but the Collins elites have laid at the

2131
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:48,239
hands of demons and suggest well Yale

2132
01:27:51,890 --> 01:27:49,770
this could be going on and they could be

2133
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:51,900
evil and they could be deceiving us but

2134
01:27:55,700 --> 01:27:53,760
they may be just something that's from a

2135
01:27:58,850 --> 01:27:55,710
different dimension that could be

2136
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:58,860
explained one day by you know quantum

2137
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:00,480
physics or something like that the idea

2138
01:28:06,020 --> 01:28:03,120
that you know quantum physics does now

2139
01:28:10,490 --> 01:28:06,030
at least after the potential for extra

2140
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:10,500
dimensions to exist so you know the the

2141
01:28:15,260 --> 01:28:12,330
biblical interpretation that these are

2142
01:28:17,149 --> 01:28:15,270
demons may be incorrect but they may be

2143
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:17,159
hostile entities from another realm

2144
01:28:21,470 --> 01:28:19,440
still you know just how one person's

2145
01:28:23,180 --> 01:28:21,480
demon you know is another person's

2146
01:28:26,090 --> 01:28:23,190
interdimensional amplitude which is

2147
01:28:28,399 --> 01:28:26,100
explainable by futuristic quantum

2148
01:28:30,020 --> 01:28:28,409
physics you know but the intent and the

2149
01:28:32,959 --> 01:28:30,030
hostility might still be there

2150
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:32,969
or it may just be T going to Earth by

2151
01:28:37,459 --> 01:28:35,850
warp drive well it could be you know I

2152
01:28:40,130 --> 01:28:37,469
mean that's the thing it's like I always

2153
01:28:42,220 --> 01:28:40,140
say to people when it comes to UFOs the

2154
01:28:45,140 --> 01:28:42,230
youth still stands for unidentified

2155
01:28:47,390 --> 01:28:45,150
everybody to an extent as much as they

2156
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:47,400
try and be impossible we all have a

2157
01:28:52,189 --> 01:28:50,730
degree of belief systems in us you know

2158
01:28:54,169 --> 01:28:52,199
see so he's like people who believe in

2159
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:54,179
God and people who don't believe in God

2160
01:28:59,000 --> 01:28:56,489
well it's still a brain system you know

2161
01:29:00,140 --> 01:28:59,010
I don't believe but no I do believe you

2162
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:00,150
know but it's still a belief system

2163
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:01,650
whether you're on the positive or the

2164
01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:03,600
negatives so and I think that applies

2165
01:29:08,060 --> 01:29:05,820
with ufology that you can interpret

2166
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:08,070
these things in different ways but a lot

2167
01:29:10,129 --> 01:29:09,810
of it at the end of the day just comes

2168
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down

2169
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:11,880
to where your beliefs are let me just

2170
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remind you that the action is intense

2171
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over at the power castes forums you can

2172
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find out for yourself go to forum para

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cast calm

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Nick Redfern offer final events am the

2175
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secret government group on demonic UFOs

2176
01:29:34,339 --> 01:29:31,619
and the afterlife we haven't gone much

2177
01:29:35,929 --> 01:29:34,349
into afterlife stuff yet maybe Chris and

2178
01:29:37,879 --> 01:29:35,939
I will pursue that later the co-host is

2179
01:29:41,470 --> 01:29:37,889
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

2180
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[Music]

2289
01:34:19,090 --> 01:34:16,150
Nick Redfern joins us his new book is

2290
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:19,100
final events from anomalous press we're

2291
01:34:22,420 --> 01:34:20,510
going to find out more about what's

2292
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:22,430
final about those events in a moment

2293
01:34:26,110 --> 01:34:24,290
Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm Jean

2294
01:34:28,780 --> 01:34:26,120
Steinberg you're in the para cast and

2295
01:34:31,630 --> 01:34:28,790
before we broke for our last section

2296
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:31,640
Chris was about to chime in with a point

2297
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:33,770
go ahead please well actually it was a

2298
01:34:38,440 --> 01:34:35,810
question one of the things that that

2299
01:34:41,100 --> 01:34:38,450
never really was clear in reading the

2300
01:34:44,380 --> 01:34:41,110
book Nick is whether the Collins elite

2301
01:34:47,110 --> 01:34:44,390
actually have come up with the with the

2302
01:34:48,220 --> 01:34:47,120
I guess final conclusion that we're

2303
01:34:51,100 --> 01:34:48,230
dealing with something that is

2304
01:34:53,020 --> 01:34:51,110
off-planet or if we're dealing with

2305
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:53,030
something that is close system that is

2306
01:34:59,200 --> 01:34:56,570
somehow generated by this you know

2307
01:35:00,730 --> 01:34:59,210
planet we call earth is there some sort

2308
01:35:03,460 --> 01:35:00,740
of dimensional thing or do we have a

2309
01:35:07,210 --> 01:35:03,470
separation are these entities coming

2310
01:35:10,660 --> 01:35:07,220
from elsewhere in in the universe or you

2311
01:35:11,380 --> 01:35:10,670
know I never it was never clear what are

2312
01:35:13,870 --> 01:35:11,390
your impressions

2313
01:35:16,300 --> 01:35:13,880
that's a fair point and I think you know

2314
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:16,310
for people who suggest you know I might

2315
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:18,290
have been disemboweled which I which I

2316
01:35:24,220 --> 01:35:20,210
cannot deny you know I'll be the first I

2317
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:24,230
cannot be neither I think it had they

2318
01:35:28,420 --> 01:35:25,850
been trying to dissing for me this story

2319
01:35:30,610 --> 01:35:28,430
would have been very smooth and every

2320
01:35:32,410 --> 01:35:30,620
point and aspect would have been covered

2321
01:35:34,870 --> 01:35:32,420
and answered you know but the way that

2322
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:34,880
there were certain things where they

2323
01:35:40,030 --> 01:35:38,330
didn't have full answers now I do know

2324
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:40,040
that some of the group particularly

2325
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:42,650
latter days interpreted where these

2326
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:45,290
creatures were coming from in very

2327
01:35:48,370 --> 01:35:46,970
simplistic terms the bad ones for whom

2328
01:35:50,530 --> 01:35:48,380
they all the good ones who were from

2329
01:35:53,170 --> 01:35:50,540
heaven now but there was no attempt to

2330
01:35:54,730 --> 01:35:53,180
define what heaven and hell were beyond

2331
01:35:57,940 --> 01:35:54,740
the fact that one's very heart full of

2332
01:35:59,890 --> 01:35:57,950
some guy with a pitchfork and a you know

2333
01:36:02,200 --> 01:35:59,900
a spiky tail and the other ones full of

2334
01:36:04,660 --> 01:36:02,210
fluffy clouds and harps and he almost

2335
01:36:07,110 --> 01:36:04,670
was you know I'm not trying to you know

2336
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:07,120
poke fun he almost was that simplistic

2337
01:36:12,790 --> 01:36:09,410
that's the way some of them viewed it

2338
01:36:16,390 --> 01:36:12,800
now others were of the view that what

2339
01:36:18,220 --> 01:36:16,400
the Bible defines as demons may as I

2340
01:36:21,730 --> 01:36:18,230
sort of alluded to before the last break

2341
01:36:24,970 --> 01:36:21,740
the explainable via things like quantum

2342
01:36:26,649 --> 01:36:24,980
physics and the idea that extra

2343
01:36:28,870 --> 01:36:26,659
dimensional entities and

2344
01:36:31,870 --> 01:36:28,880
Browns could exist and that perhaps some

2345
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:31,880
of them a highly hostile towards the

2346
01:36:37,929 --> 01:36:34,610
human race and have their own agendas

2347
01:36:40,419 --> 01:36:37,939
and maybe ancient man knew more about

2348
01:36:42,219 --> 01:36:40,429
these extra dimensions than we have an

2349
01:36:44,379 --> 01:36:42,229
awareness of but they didn't really

2350
01:36:46,989 --> 01:36:44,389
understand them and they so created

2351
01:36:49,659 --> 01:36:46,999
mythologies to try and define these

2352
01:36:52,750 --> 01:36:49,669
loans and dimensions in terms of heaven

2353
01:36:56,739 --> 01:36:52,760
and health so you know there seems to

2354
01:36:59,259 --> 01:36:56,749
have been a degree of variance if you

2355
01:37:01,449 --> 01:36:59,269
like even within the group until the

2356
01:37:04,359 --> 01:37:01,459
latter years when he just became dumbed

2357
01:37:06,219 --> 01:37:04,369
down just dumb down belief systems that

2358
01:37:08,529 --> 01:37:06,229
would be sort of on a par with a certain

2359
01:37:10,659 --> 01:37:08,539
well fundamentalist Christian yeah sort

2360
01:37:13,299 --> 01:37:10,669
of the like the Alaskan angle is I like

2361
01:37:15,279 --> 01:37:13,309
to call it well one of the things that

2362
01:37:18,069 --> 01:37:15,289
surprised me is that there was no

2363
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:18,079
mention anywhere in the book of looking

2364
01:37:24,759 --> 01:37:21,050
at this whole scenario potential

2365
01:37:26,770 --> 01:37:24,769
scenario which really is is totally

2366
01:37:30,189 --> 01:37:26,780
immersed in the fundamentalist Christian

2367
01:37:33,489 --> 01:37:30,199
view the of the Bible there's no mention

2368
01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:33,499
of of looking at it from the perspective

2369
01:37:41,770 --> 01:37:37,489
of the jinn or from possibly Shiva or

2370
01:37:44,729 --> 01:37:41,780
Kali or some of the other more shall we

2371
01:37:47,890 --> 01:37:44,739
say I'm scary

2372
01:37:49,739 --> 01:37:47,900
demonic appearing at least entities and

2373
01:37:52,209 --> 01:37:49,749
other in other Pantheon's and other

2374
01:37:56,140 --> 01:37:52,219
belief systems around the world this

2375
01:37:59,649 --> 01:37:56,150
does seem to be absolutely cut and dried

2376
01:38:01,919 --> 01:37:59,659
a Christian based view of these

2377
01:38:05,020 --> 01:38:01,929
phenomenal creatures events

2378
01:38:08,770 --> 01:38:05,030
what-have-you and to me it would seem

2379
01:38:11,909 --> 01:38:08,780
that if this was a real legitimate think

2380
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:11,919
tank looking at the possibility of

2381
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:15,050
defining what these entities are that

2382
01:38:19,689 --> 01:38:16,610
you would have some mention of a

2383
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:19,699
cross-cultural across religious sort of

2384
01:38:23,709 --> 01:38:21,650
viewpoint on this and I know we're in

2385
01:38:26,049 --> 01:38:23,719
the book do I see any mention of any

2386
01:38:28,089 --> 01:38:26,059
other belief systems trying to be

2387
01:38:33,159 --> 01:38:28,099
incorporated into this to make it a

2388
01:38:35,859 --> 01:38:33,169
universal or worldwide if you will sort

2389
01:38:38,580 --> 01:38:35,869
of theory do you have any comments on

2390
01:38:40,710 --> 01:38:38,590
that or do not include that

2391
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:40,720
know that the first thing I would say to

2392
01:38:45,030 --> 01:38:42,850
is I think I actually agree with you

2393
01:38:49,320 --> 01:38:45,040
with 100% certainty do you know this

2394
01:38:51,780 --> 01:38:49,330
group actively was made up of people in

2395
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:51,790
some cases who actually had preconceived

2396
01:38:57,570 --> 01:38:55,090
Christian beliefs now what I went to the

2397
01:38:59,460 --> 01:38:57,580
one place I would kind of argue with you

2398
01:39:00,930 --> 01:38:59,470
a little bit is I didn't think in the

2399
01:39:03,780 --> 01:39:00,940
early days when they were looking at

2400
01:39:05,580 --> 01:39:03,790
things like Crowley and lamb they had to

2401
01:39:07,770 --> 01:39:05,590
have been aware you know the Crowley

2402
01:39:09,690 --> 01:39:07,780
wasn't sort of praying to the devil he

2403
01:39:13,740 --> 01:39:09,700
was rendering himself into an altered

2404
01:39:15,570 --> 01:39:13,750
state to try and you know manifest these

2405
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:15,580
entities and that's certainly not

2406
01:39:19,740 --> 01:39:17,410
something that's necessarily taught in

2407
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:19,750
biblical teachings you know that that's

2408
01:39:24,480 --> 01:39:21,730
the way to contact the devil is by

2409
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:24,490
getting high on mescaline or whatever so

2410
01:39:29,690 --> 01:39:26,170
I do think in the early days they were

2411
01:39:32,220 --> 01:39:29,700
open to looking at different angles but

2412
01:39:34,500 --> 01:39:32,230
it is quite true that there's absolutely

2413
01:39:39,030 --> 01:39:34,510
no doubt that over time and possibly

2414
01:39:40,710 --> 01:39:39,040
from early years they were dominated by

2415
01:39:43,790 --> 01:39:40,720
the teachings of the Bible

2416
01:39:45,900 --> 01:39:43,800
and although I'm quite sure that they

2417
01:39:47,340 --> 01:39:45,910
because I know that I mentioned one of

2418
01:39:48,330 --> 01:39:47,350
the chapters I think it's the chapter

2419
01:39:50,150 --> 01:39:48,340
title whistleblowing

2420
01:39:53,610 --> 01:39:50,160
they talked about how the group

2421
01:39:56,340 --> 01:39:53,620
consulted ancient books from the 14 and

2422
01:39:59,160 --> 01:39:56,350
1500 some of which dealt with demonic

2423
01:40:01,290 --> 01:39:59,170
entities in in ancient Babylonia which

2424
01:40:03,540 --> 01:40:01,300
aren't placed in a Christian context but

2425
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:03,550
they basically concluded that even

2426
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:04,930
though other cultures have their belief

2427
01:40:09,930 --> 01:40:07,450
systems they were all wrong it was all

2428
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:09,940
just it was the Christian God versus the

2429
01:40:15,120 --> 01:40:12,730
biblical devil and although some of

2430
01:40:16,830 --> 01:40:15,130
these other cultures had experienced

2431
01:40:18,750 --> 01:40:16,840
these entities and put their own spin on

2432
01:40:20,970 --> 01:40:18,760
what they were they were all wrong and

2433
01:40:22,350 --> 01:40:20,980
the Collins elite were all right so

2434
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:22,360
basically if you're Jewish if you're

2435
01:40:27,030 --> 01:40:25,570
Muslim you're not part of this well what

2436
01:40:29,250 --> 01:40:27,040
it means is if you're of a different

2437
01:40:31,410 --> 01:40:29,260
belief system he doesn't mean you're not

2438
01:40:34,020 --> 01:40:31,420
seeing demons but your interpretation on

2439
01:40:36,030 --> 01:40:34,030
what they are jinns whatever tricksters

2440
01:40:37,740 --> 01:40:36,040
goblins he's wrong they're demons from

2441
01:40:39,240 --> 01:40:37,750
hell but he doesn't mean they're not the

2442
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:39,250
people weren't seeing them they just

2443
01:40:44,790 --> 01:40:41,890
denied their belief systems if you want

2444
01:40:46,890 --> 01:40:44,800
well that to me is a wobbling in the the

2445
01:40:49,290 --> 01:40:46,900
force so to speak I think that there are

2446
01:40:51,210 --> 01:40:49,300
so that's why I think they came around

2447
01:40:52,169 --> 01:40:51,220
to this radical belief system in later

2448
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:52,179
years because

2449
01:40:57,600 --> 01:40:56,080
the impartial open-mindedness of looking

2450
01:40:59,790 --> 01:40:57,610
into what I think that is very

2451
01:41:03,709 --> 01:40:59,800
interesting area be occult links to the

2452
01:41:05,850 --> 01:41:03,719
UFO phenomenon was sidetracked by

2453
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:05,860
eventually whether subconsciously

2454
01:41:09,450 --> 01:41:07,600
unconsciously or deliberately but

2455
01:41:12,390 --> 01:41:09,460
eventually coming around to the idea

2456
01:41:14,970 --> 01:41:12,400
that the Christian viewpoint is the only

2457
01:41:17,100 --> 01:41:14,980
one that has any validity this is the

2458
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:17,110
fight against you know good and evil as

2459
01:41:22,590 --> 01:41:19,210
prophesized in the Bible and revelation

2460
01:41:24,540 --> 01:41:22,600
etc and other cultures may have their

2461
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:24,550
theories they may have experienced them

2462
01:41:28,530 --> 01:41:26,530
but they're all completely wrong if they

2463
01:41:30,780 --> 01:41:28,540
don't adhere literally to us in the

2464
01:41:33,419 --> 01:41:30,790
Bible and that's where I think the

2465
01:41:36,270 --> 01:41:33,429
impartial open-mindedness was lost and

2466
01:41:39,209 --> 01:41:36,280
and you know it went becoming a bias

2467
01:41:41,220 --> 01:41:39,219
study to our whole belief systems and

2468
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:41,230
then to try and integrate that into

2469
01:41:46,260 --> 01:41:44,710
society alright let's look at some of

2470
01:41:50,189 --> 01:41:46,270
the other implications here

2471
01:41:52,260 --> 01:41:50,199
okay what about UFO abductions or UFO

2472
01:41:54,930 --> 01:41:52,270
abductions caused by these demonic

2473
01:42:01,229 --> 01:41:54,940
creatures - well according to Colleen

2474
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:01,239
Julie tail yes the venue is it's not

2475
01:42:05,430 --> 01:42:02,650
unique but it's actually very

2476
01:42:07,470 --> 01:42:05,440
interesting one they they conclude that

2477
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:07,480
no one and I mean literally no one has

2478
01:42:12,660 --> 01:42:09,810
ever been abducted aboard a UFO and

2479
01:42:17,010 --> 01:42:12,670
prodded and poked and had their DNA egg

2480
01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:17,020
sperm extracted etc they believe that

2481
01:42:22,740 --> 01:42:20,050
every single case of abduction that's

2482
01:42:24,390 --> 01:42:22,750
occurred has occurred while the person

2483
01:42:28,110 --> 01:42:24,400
has been rendered into an altered state

2484
01:42:29,430 --> 01:42:28,120
by these entities it's almost like the

2485
01:42:31,530 --> 01:42:29,440
best way I can describe it he's not

2486
01:42:33,930 --> 01:42:31,540
where it's like a mirage or an

2487
01:42:35,220 --> 01:42:33,940
hallucination but they the group

2488
01:42:38,459 --> 01:42:35,230
concludes almost like the so-called

2489
01:42:39,930 --> 01:42:38,469
holodeck on Star Trek where it was

2490
01:42:42,180 --> 01:42:39,940
almost like a hallucination or a

2491
01:42:44,850 --> 01:42:42,190
hologram that you could interact with

2492
01:42:46,830 --> 01:42:44,860
but it wasn't real the person in other

2493
01:42:49,229 --> 01:42:46,840
words never left their bedroom or if

2494
01:42:50,790 --> 01:42:49,239
they're in the car you know they were

2495
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:50,800
directed to pull the car to the side of

2496
01:42:53,790 --> 01:42:52,090
the road and they never left the

2497
01:42:56,939 --> 01:42:53,800
driver's seat or the passenger seat or

2498
01:43:00,959 --> 01:42:56,949
whatever and they believed two things

2499
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:00,969
were going on one was to try and provoke

2500
01:43:05,310 --> 01:43:03,370
and create in the minds of the entire

2501
01:43:05,879 --> 01:43:05,320
population around the world if you like

2502
01:43:09,089 --> 01:43:05,889
the idea

2503
01:43:11,310 --> 01:43:09,099
alien abductions were the work of in

2504
01:43:13,109 --> 01:43:11,320
simple terms alien scientists or

2505
01:43:15,929 --> 01:43:13,119
whatever coming to the earth to take

2506
01:43:18,330 --> 01:43:15,939
eggs sperm and DNA because their race is

2507
01:43:20,850 --> 01:43:18,340
dying and we're genetically compatible

2508
01:43:23,609 --> 01:43:20,860
now of course that's a hybrid theory

2509
01:43:25,609 --> 01:43:23,619
that's the hybrid monoid theory that dr.

2510
01:43:27,779 --> 01:43:25,619
David Jacobs and others theorizes about

2511
01:43:29,219 --> 01:43:27,789
the important thing to realize is

2512
01:43:31,500 --> 01:43:29,229
whether people agree with this scenario

2513
01:43:34,259 --> 01:43:31,510
or not they're very fatty today if you

2514
01:43:35,790 --> 01:43:34,269
ask people even if they don't believe in

2515
01:43:37,679 --> 01:43:35,800
alien abductions what is the scenario

2516
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:37,689
they say well people get kidnapped on

2517
01:43:42,449 --> 01:43:39,760
board a UFO and they get prodded and

2518
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:42,459
poked and had their DNA taken everybody

2519
01:43:47,699 --> 01:43:45,489
does know that name now if you like and

2520
01:43:50,069 --> 01:43:47,709
so that was the point the group was

2521
01:43:53,580 --> 01:43:50,079
trying to make that it was these

2522
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:53,590
deceptive entities wanted to unmask if

2523
01:43:58,949 --> 01:43:56,530
you like demonstrates and proved but

2524
01:44:01,620 --> 01:43:58,959
they were alien in alien visitors if you

2525
01:44:03,540 --> 01:44:01,630
like and they did survive the abduction

2526
01:44:05,850 --> 01:44:03,550
meme but but it was a meme that actually

2527
01:44:08,279 --> 01:44:05,860
had no reality and didn't serve their

2528
01:44:10,709 --> 01:44:08,289
purpose in terms of genetics or whatever

2529
01:44:14,250 --> 01:44:10,719
at all it was just it was basically

2530
01:44:15,540 --> 01:44:14,260
almost like pandering to our logic this

2531
01:44:17,399 --> 01:44:15,550
is what we would do if we went to

2532
01:44:19,529 --> 01:44:17,409
another world you know we would capture

2533
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:19,539
the animals and proud of them pokum it

2534
01:44:22,739 --> 01:44:21,010
was all deception and we'll have to get

2535
01:44:24,989 --> 01:44:22,749
into more of that in a moment Nick

2536
01:44:27,419 --> 01:44:24,999
Redfern the book is called final events

2537
01:44:36,090 --> 01:44:27,429
co-host is Chris O'Brien on gene

2538
01:44:41,580 --> 01:44:38,900
[Music]

2539
01:44:43,530 --> 01:44:41,590
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

2540
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:43,540
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

2541
01:44:47,580 --> 01:44:45,850
favorite programs on GCM I've got good

2542
01:44:50,310 --> 01:44:47,590
news for you I'm proud to announce that

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01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:50,320
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

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01:44:54,420 --> 01:44:52,480
for our dedicated listeners at GCM

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01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:54,430
live.com listen to your favorite

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01:44:58,620 --> 01:44:56,530
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

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01:45:00,840 --> 01:44:58,630
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

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01:45:03,210 --> 01:45:00,850
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iPhone app today by clicking on the

2551
01:45:09,690 --> 01:45:07,060
banner at GC and live.com

2552
01:45:11,130 --> 01:45:09,700
again that's GC and live.com we the

2553
01:45:13,230 --> 01:45:11,140
people grow cotton wheat fabric

2554
01:45:14,850 --> 01:45:13,240
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2555
01:45:16,590 --> 01:45:14,860
protect from counterfeit than carding to

2556
01:45:17,070 --> 01:45:16,600
a private bank having a led back at

2557
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:17,080
interest

2558
01:45:20,700 --> 01:45:18,850
forcing taxes to surfaced at this

2559
01:45:22,140 --> 01:45:20,710
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2560
01:45:23,790 --> 01:45:22,150
stating a central bank issuing the

2561
01:45:24,900 --> 01:45:23,800
public currency is a greater menace to

2562
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:24,910
the liberties of the people than a

2563
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:26,290
standing army today understand I'm

2564
01:45:29,550 --> 01:45:27,730
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2565
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:29,560
that explains our monetary system call

2566
01:45:36,210 --> 01:45:33,010
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2567
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:36,220
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2568
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:44,770
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

2569
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:46,690
the pair cast the gold standard of

2570
01:45:55,149 --> 01:45:50,050
paranormal radio and now here's gene

2571
01:46:00,319 --> 01:45:57,890
this is the final hours of power cast

2572
01:46:02,569 --> 01:46:00,329
and after listening to these to carry on

2573
01:46:06,350 --> 01:46:02,579
it may be the final hour forever we

2574
01:46:09,169 --> 01:46:06,360
never know Nick Redfern is our guest

2575
01:46:10,910 --> 01:46:09,179
displaying unheard-of talents or

2576
01:46:14,930 --> 01:46:10,920
non-existent talents depending on your

2577
01:46:16,850 --> 01:46:14,940
point of view you like that okay I'll go

2578
01:46:18,319 --> 01:46:16,860
along with a non-existent Talent Chris

2579
01:46:21,199 --> 01:46:18,329
O'Brien displaying his non-existent

2580
01:46:23,270 --> 01:46:21,209
Talent I'm Jean Steinberg with my

2581
01:46:26,419 --> 01:46:23,280
non-existent Talent you're in the power

2582
01:46:28,219 --> 01:46:26,429
cast now as you've been talking for the

2583
01:46:30,140 --> 01:46:28,229
last couple of hours in the show Nick I

2584
01:46:33,140 --> 01:46:30,150
thought of the show you and I did

2585
01:46:35,930 --> 01:46:33,150
together the previous week with the

2586
01:46:39,799 --> 01:46:35,940
author of Mirage men where in that case

2587
01:46:42,109 --> 01:46:39,809
the actors or offenders are government

2588
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:42,119
agents playing this kind of game you

2589
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:44,159
know abductions all this other stuff

2590
01:46:48,500 --> 01:46:46,530
it's being done by some government

2591
01:46:51,350 --> 01:46:48,510
authority for whatever secret purpose

2592
01:46:54,379 --> 01:46:51,360
they have so do you find any way to

2593
01:46:57,709 --> 01:46:54,389
separate the two the Mirage men from the

2594
01:46:59,689 --> 01:46:57,719
people behind final events well you know

2595
01:47:02,330 --> 01:46:59,699
I mean I'll be the first to admit this

2596
01:47:04,939 --> 01:47:02,340
is a difficult area because you know a

2597
01:47:06,649 --> 01:47:04,949
lot of people as I mentioned with in

2598
01:47:09,649 --> 01:47:06,659
ufology are believed driven and they

2599
01:47:12,830 --> 01:47:09,659
don't want to believe that they've been

2600
01:47:14,719 --> 01:47:12,840
deceived now my view is that there's a

2601
01:47:17,180 --> 01:47:14,729
genuine UFO phenomenon but I don't know

2602
01:47:19,310 --> 01:47:17,190
what it is and so when I hear a story

2603
01:47:22,939 --> 01:47:19,320
like this you know this is why I related

2604
01:47:26,209 --> 01:47:22,949
the story as it was told to me because I

2605
01:47:28,549 --> 01:47:26,219
truthfully cannot say and it would be

2606
01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:28,559
reckless and egotistical of me to say

2607
01:47:32,870 --> 01:47:30,209
that oh you know I wasn't like - I

2608
01:47:35,089 --> 01:47:32,880
wasn't deceived and this isn't this is a

2609
01:47:36,770 --> 01:47:35,099
complete lie or it's a half truth or

2610
01:47:39,259 --> 01:47:36,780
it's an attempt to steer people away

2611
01:47:42,739 --> 01:47:39,269
from the et angle you know I don't know

2612
01:47:45,350 --> 01:47:42,749
but what I would say is I think we have

2613
01:47:47,359 --> 01:47:45,360
to be careful and realize that you know

2614
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:47,369
we shouldn't trade ufology as a religion

2615
01:47:52,310 --> 01:47:50,249
ironically given the subject matter but

2616
01:47:54,529 --> 01:47:52,320
what we should do is be open-minded

2617
01:47:56,660 --> 01:47:54,539
that's what I've tried to be with this

2618
01:47:59,899 --> 01:47:56,670
story my you know not avoiding the issue

2619
01:48:01,910 --> 01:47:59,909
I don't think I was lied to but can I

2620
01:48:03,709 --> 01:48:01,920
deny the possibility that there's a

2621
01:48:06,169 --> 01:48:03,719
bigger picture behind the scenes as to

2622
01:48:06,860 --> 01:48:06,179
why these people may have spoken to ray

2623
01:48:08,810 --> 01:48:06,870
20

2624
01:48:11,060 --> 01:48:08,820
years ago and then what seems to be

2625
01:48:14,300 --> 01:48:11,070
elements of the same people speaking to

2626
01:48:16,790 --> 01:48:14,310
me 20 years on after Ray could there be

2627
01:48:18,710 --> 01:48:16,800
another agenda along the lines of Mar

2628
01:48:20,180 --> 01:48:18,720
Pilkington's management yes the court I

2629
01:48:22,940 --> 01:48:20,190
didn't see evidence of it but that

2630
01:48:25,730 --> 01:48:22,950
doesn't mean it doesn't exist equally it

2631
01:48:27,620 --> 01:48:25,740
may mean it doesn't exist you know we

2632
01:48:31,250 --> 01:48:27,630
could argue that the whole Mirage main

2633
01:48:33,770 --> 01:48:31,260
angle of instilling people with the idea

2634
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:33,780
that UFOs exist actually works as a

2635
01:48:38,390 --> 01:48:35,730
legitimate cover to hide what some I

2636
01:48:41,830 --> 01:48:38,400
believe it's a real demonic angle you

2637
01:48:44,510 --> 01:48:41,840
know it could work either of two ways or

2638
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:44,520
maybe there's another answer and this is

2639
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:47,010
just a case of people swampthing and

2640
01:48:51,350 --> 01:48:49,050
pummeling us with different scenarios to

2641
01:48:53,150 --> 01:48:51,360
keep us away from a scenario that we

2642
01:48:55,070 --> 01:48:53,160
haven't even considered yet which might

2643
01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:55,080
be the real one you know it's I'm not

2644
01:49:00,020 --> 01:48:57,330
someone who's trying to in other words

2645
01:49:01,580 --> 01:49:00,030
force-feed this theory down people's

2646
01:49:03,470 --> 01:49:01,590
throats I'm presenting it because I

2647
01:49:05,030 --> 01:49:03,480
think it's an interesting piece of youth

2648
01:49:07,130 --> 01:49:05,040
illogical history as it relates to

2649
01:49:08,660 --> 01:49:07,140
governments interesting involvement in

2650
01:49:10,070 --> 01:49:08,670
the subject and certainly one that

2651
01:49:13,250 --> 01:49:10,080
hasn't really been mentioned very much

2652
01:49:16,030 --> 01:49:13,260
but just about all the theories of UFOs

2653
01:49:19,550 --> 01:49:16,040
and religions talk about an end times

2654
01:49:21,140 --> 01:49:19,560
whether it's 2012 or whatever we reach

2655
01:49:23,570 --> 01:49:21,150
the point in our civilization where

2656
01:49:25,070 --> 01:49:23,580
there have to be drastic changes and it

2657
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:25,080
sounds like this particular organization

2658
01:49:30,050 --> 01:49:26,970
is leveraging that for their own

2659
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:30,060
purposes yeah that's where I have a

2660
01:49:33,380 --> 01:49:32,250
problem with a lot of religions I don't

2661
01:49:35,870 --> 01:49:33,390
care what people believe you know I

2662
01:49:38,810 --> 01:49:35,880
don't care if people believe in the you

2663
01:49:40,700 --> 01:49:38,820
know the Christian Bible if they're

2664
01:49:43,730 --> 01:49:40,710
being those Muslims whatever I just

2665
01:49:46,250 --> 01:49:43,740
don't care what I could do care about is

2666
01:49:50,330 --> 01:49:46,260
when belief systems are then used and

2667
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:50,340
manipulated to control whether through

2668
01:49:54,620 --> 01:49:52,320
fear and guilt which are the main tools

2669
01:49:57,170 --> 01:49:54,630
of religion through fear and guilt to

2670
01:49:59,450 --> 01:49:57,180
alter the mindset or control people and

2671
01:50:02,210 --> 01:49:59,460
and and worry them and upset them

2672
01:50:04,430 --> 01:50:02,220
because you know they're tryna I guess

2673
01:50:06,980 --> 01:50:04,440
mold and manipulating it's almost like a

2674
01:50:08,750 --> 01:50:06,990
cult-like basis and you know people may

2675
01:50:10,490 --> 01:50:08,760
say that well that's an insult but I

2676
01:50:13,130 --> 01:50:10,500
don't think it is if you're open-minded

2677
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:13,140
on religion and you want to find out

2678
01:50:17,180 --> 01:50:14,730
about it fine but if you can go to

2679
01:50:19,550 --> 01:50:17,190
church and you're told you know that if

2680
01:50:20,510 --> 01:50:19,560
you do this or you do that you're going

2681
01:50:22,010 --> 01:50:20,520
to burn in hell

2682
01:50:24,380 --> 01:50:22,020
that is controlled in you through fear

2683
01:50:24,980 --> 01:50:24,390
now whether the person believes it me or

2684
01:50:27,260 --> 01:50:24,990
not

2685
01:50:28,910 --> 01:50:27,270
are these irrelevance you know you're

2686
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:28,920
you're controlling someone trophy it's

2687
01:50:36,020 --> 01:50:32,250
no different than you know the to me at

2688
01:50:39,110 --> 01:50:36,030
least the terrible sort of scandal of

2689
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:39,120
using the 9/11 tragedy at a real

2690
01:50:44,030 --> 01:50:41,810
terrible tragedy and using that

2691
01:50:45,950 --> 01:50:44,040
manipulating you to control people

2692
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:45,960
through fear which is there's no doubt

2693
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:46,890
the people in the Bush administration

2694
01:50:51,980 --> 01:50:49,650
did that you know it was a terrible

2695
01:50:53,660 --> 01:50:51,990
event but what's even worse is

2696
01:50:54,290 --> 01:50:53,670
exploiting the deaths of all those

2697
01:50:57,590 --> 01:50:54,300
people

2698
01:50:59,750 --> 01:50:57,600
as a means to scare the population into

2699
01:51:01,790 --> 01:50:59,760
you know passing the Patriot Act and

2700
01:51:04,700 --> 01:51:01,800
this is gotta be don't grab our own

2701
01:51:06,710 --> 01:51:04,710
safety etc yes you know you you need

2702
01:51:07,940 --> 01:51:06,720
protection but when when you start

2703
01:51:10,490 --> 01:51:07,950
exploiting things and that's what

2704
01:51:12,020 --> 01:51:10,500
religion does religion unfortunately the

2705
01:51:14,330 --> 01:51:12,030
most thought never stays are just

2706
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:14,340
teaching a way of life it becomes a

2707
01:51:19,010 --> 01:51:16,890
control factor and I think that's what's

2708
01:51:20,570 --> 01:51:19,020
going on with this group it sounds like

2709
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:20,580
they're just trying to control people

2710
01:51:25,820 --> 01:51:22,890
for this orientation let's watch out for

2711
01:51:27,890 --> 01:51:25,830
those UFOs because they're all demonic

2712
01:51:29,870 --> 01:51:27,900
they're here to do us harm rather than

2713
01:51:31,580 --> 01:51:29,880
help us whereas you can say the same

2714
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:31,590
thing about the people say UFOs a

2715
01:51:36,500 --> 01:51:34,290
benevolent they're here for good

2716
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:36,510
purposes to help protect us from our

2717
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:38,850
stupidity and we should listen to them

2718
01:51:42,380 --> 01:51:40,650
again it's a controlling mechanism it

2719
01:51:42,740 --> 01:51:42,390
doesn't matter what you say what you

2720
01:51:45,020 --> 01:51:42,750
believe

2721
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:45,030
it's a controlling mechanism designed to

2722
01:51:48,860 --> 01:51:47,370
deceive us and you might as well say

2723
01:51:51,110 --> 01:51:48,870
this organization could be government

2724
01:51:53,330 --> 01:51:51,120
disinformation as well yeah it could be

2725
01:51:56,150 --> 01:51:53,340
and I mean you know the frustrating

2726
01:51:59,570 --> 01:51:56,160
thing I understand for the listeners may

2727
01:52:01,310 --> 01:51:59,580
be the fact that I cannot come to a firm

2728
01:52:03,140 --> 01:52:01,320
conclusion you know there are people who

2729
01:52:05,030 --> 01:52:03,150
tell you aliens crashed at Roswell and

2730
01:52:07,340 --> 01:52:05,040
this is why but at the end of the day it

2731
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:07,350
still has to be a belief system based

2732
01:52:13,490 --> 01:52:09,570
upon a study of the evidence but you

2733
01:52:15,470 --> 01:52:13,500
know I feel a responsibility to only say

2734
01:52:17,510 --> 01:52:15,480
what I can say for certain when I know

2735
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:17,520
something for certain all I know for

2736
01:52:21,320 --> 01:52:19,290
sure is this group exists even came to

2737
01:52:23,510 --> 01:52:21,330
this conclusion whether or not the group

2738
01:52:26,390 --> 01:52:23,520
was right that's a very different matter

2739
01:52:29,450 --> 01:52:26,400
and I know it's certainly not right to

2740
01:52:32,150 --> 01:52:29,460
try and alter the mindset of Halse waves

2741
01:52:33,649 --> 01:52:32,160
of the population through fear control

2742
01:52:35,989 --> 01:52:33,659
and guilt

2743
01:52:37,489 --> 01:52:35,999
to get them come to to their viewpoint

2744
01:52:38,870 --> 01:52:37,499
when there's naturally no hard evidence

2745
01:52:40,939 --> 01:52:38,880
that we know it leads that that

2746
01:52:43,580 --> 01:52:40,949
viewpoint extends beyond a belief system

2747
01:52:46,069 --> 01:52:43,590
so how in the end you even find out what

2748
01:52:48,739 --> 01:52:46,079
the real answer is what's the cause

2749
01:52:50,629 --> 01:52:48,749
behind UFOs and other paranormal events

2750
01:52:53,419 --> 01:52:50,639
or even if they're related if you have

2751
01:52:55,429 --> 01:52:53,429
all this nonsense lurking forth well I

2752
01:52:56,659 --> 01:52:55,439
think that's I mean that's the difficult

2753
01:52:58,819 --> 01:52:56,669
thing that's why we don't have the

2754
01:53:01,339 --> 01:52:58,829
answer because the the phenomenon

2755
01:53:03,739 --> 01:53:01,349
doesn't behave in the ways that we might

2756
01:53:05,870 --> 01:53:03,749
expect or want it to it doesn't try you

2757
01:53:09,589 --> 01:53:05,880
know we don't have huge ear folks coming

2758
01:53:12,439 --> 01:53:09,599
over LA or you know Chicago or whatever

2759
01:53:15,350 --> 01:53:12,449
and blasting skyscrapers off the ground

2760
01:53:17,419 --> 01:53:15,360
but equally we don't have President

2761
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:17,429
Obama leaving the White House and

2762
01:53:21,949 --> 01:53:19,650
shaking hands with and et on the front

2763
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:21,959
lawn none of that has ever happened in

2764
01:53:25,729 --> 01:53:23,610
other words and you see this very

2765
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:25,739
history with all these archetypal things

2766
01:53:30,739 --> 01:53:27,449
whether it's jinns goblins whatever

2767
01:53:32,839 --> 01:53:30,749
they're always hiding from society but

2768
01:53:34,939 --> 01:53:32,849
they interact with us and they seem to

2769
01:53:36,529 --> 01:53:34,949
have like a need to interact with us

2770
01:53:38,719 --> 01:53:36,539
it's almost like they need us as much as

2771
01:53:40,250 --> 01:53:38,729
we need them but we don't understand why

2772
01:53:42,919 --> 01:53:40,260
maybe we're just not seeing the bigger

2773
01:53:44,689 --> 01:53:42,929
picture now the bigger picture as far as

2774
01:53:46,339 --> 01:53:44,699
the Colleen's elite was concerned or

2775
01:53:48,589 --> 01:53:46,349
probably used concern he's probably the

2776
01:53:51,589 --> 01:53:48,599
one of the most disturbing aspects of

2777
01:53:53,509 --> 01:53:51,599
the book they have an answer as to all

2778
01:53:56,120 --> 01:53:53,519
reason or theory if you like everyone at

2779
01:53:57,709 --> 01:53:56,130
serving as to why you know we've never

2780
01:53:59,359 --> 01:53:57,719
had that definitive landing on the White

2781
01:54:02,060 --> 01:53:59,369
House lawn but equally they've never

2782
01:54:04,580 --> 01:54:02,070
tried to destroy us their conclusion is

2783
01:54:07,699 --> 01:54:04,590
that the earth itself is essentially a

2784
01:54:10,370 --> 01:54:07,709
farm and that the human race our cattle

2785
01:54:12,739 --> 01:54:10,380
and they believe that the human race are

2786
01:54:15,290 --> 01:54:12,749
the only living creatures on the planet

2787
01:54:17,449 --> 01:54:15,300
that have souls they also believe that

2788
01:54:19,009 --> 01:54:17,459
these entities the demonic entities

2789
01:54:20,989 --> 01:54:19,019
don't want us to destroy ourselves

2790
01:54:23,060 --> 01:54:20,999
actually want us to keep populating and

2791
01:54:25,069 --> 01:54:23,070
creating more and more of us because

2792
01:54:27,259 --> 01:54:25,079
they believe that on that upon our death

2793
01:54:29,779 --> 01:54:27,269
the the group I mean not the David the

2794
01:54:31,929 --> 01:54:29,789
group believes on our deaths what

2795
01:54:34,699 --> 01:54:31,939
happens is that these entities

2796
01:54:37,390 --> 01:54:34,709
essentially harvest human souls for a

2797
01:54:40,850 --> 01:54:37,400
poly and admittedly poorly understood

2798
01:54:42,889 --> 01:54:40,860
life source or energy source that these

2799
01:54:45,139 --> 01:54:42,899
entities feed upon so in other words the

2800
01:54:46,879 --> 01:54:45,149
earth is a farm where the cattle but we

2801
01:54:47,710 --> 01:54:46,889
don't see the bigger picture until we

2802
01:54:50,180 --> 01:54:47,720
die and when we

2803
01:54:52,010 --> 01:54:50,190
that's when I guess we go to the

2804
01:54:55,070 --> 01:54:52,020
slaughterhouse and they take our souls

2805
01:54:56,620 --> 01:54:55,080
and it's along the lines of although I

2806
01:54:58,730 --> 01:54:56,630
don't mention this in the book but

2807
01:55:00,590 --> 01:54:58,740
attacked but the best way I can describe

2808
01:55:02,540 --> 01:55:00,600
it for people seen the Matrix movie

2809
01:55:05,690 --> 01:55:02,550
where you know everybody's living in

2810
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:05,700
this kind of like virtual reality world

2811
01:55:09,830 --> 01:55:07,530
not realizing that there's this other

2812
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:09,840
realm of existence where there's these

2813
01:55:15,170 --> 01:55:13,170
endless you know bodies just in storage

2814
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:15,180
being used as an energy source is a

2815
01:55:21,980 --> 01:55:19,410
matter easy and a moment we'll have to

2816
01:55:23,750 --> 01:55:21,990
explore the matrix factor Nick Redfern

2817
01:55:26,210 --> 01:55:23,760
joining us the author of the book called

2818
01:55:28,490 --> 01:55:26,220
final events Chris O'Brien Sacko host

2819
01:55:29,970 --> 01:55:28,500
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

2820
01:55:38,340 --> 01:55:29,980
cast

2821
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[Music]

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2847
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yourself is gold right for me the answer

2848
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2850
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have medical insurance is your home

2851
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ensure you carry life insurance

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how about financial insurance if you own

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trust the government gold has always

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good stuff

2912
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we want to hear from you if you have a

2913
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comment or question about the pair cast

2914
02:00:03,420 --> 01:59:59,980
send it to news at the para cast com

2915
02:00:05,100 --> 02:00:03,430
that's news at the para cast calm and

2916
02:00:07,830 --> 02:00:05,110
don't forget to visit our famous pair

2917
02:00:11,220 --> 02:00:07,840
cast community forums at forum dot the

2918
02:00:16,410 --> 02:00:11,230
podcast.com get in on all the action at

2919
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:16,420
forum dot the para cast comm we're

2920
02:00:20,100 --> 02:00:18,250
talking to Nick Redfern who's also one

2921
02:00:22,020 --> 02:00:20,110
of our co-hosts and a very prolific

2922
02:00:24,450 --> 02:00:22,030
author of all things paranormal the book

2923
02:00:27,420 --> 02:00:24,460
is called final events and the secret

2924
02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:27,430
government group on demonic UFOs and the

2925
02:00:31,110 --> 02:00:29,410
afterlife Chris O'Brien's the co-host

2926
02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:31,120
I'm Jean Steinberg you're in the para

2927
02:00:36,090 --> 02:00:34,330
cast Nick before we get too far ahead of

2928
02:00:38,790 --> 02:00:36,100
ourselves in terms of really getting

2929
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:38,800
into why you named this book final

2930
02:00:42,630 --> 02:00:41,410
events why don't you give us a give our

2931
02:00:45,870 --> 02:00:42,640
listeners a little bit of some

2932
02:00:48,030 --> 02:00:45,880
background on operation off and Sidney

2933
02:00:50,550 --> 02:00:48,040
Gottlieb and the Army chemical Corps and

2934
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:50,560
Richard Helms and some of the

2935
02:00:56,910 --> 02:00:54,370
interesting projects that some Howard

2936
02:00:59,700 --> 02:00:56,920
dovetailed into the so called Colin's

2937
02:01:02,280 --> 02:00:59,710
elites I guess views of you know the

2938
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:02,290
agenda of these demonic entities yeah I

2939
02:01:05,970 --> 02:01:03,850
mean this is the important thing is that

2940
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:05,980
although the existence of the the

2941
02:01:10,260 --> 02:01:08,050
Collins elite hasn't been officially

2942
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:10,270
confirmed the there's absolutely no

2943
02:01:13,890 --> 02:01:12,490
doubt that elements of the official

2944
02:01:17,010 --> 02:01:13,900
world Patil in the intelligence

2945
02:01:19,410 --> 02:01:17,020
community have delve very deeply into

2946
02:01:21,540 --> 02:01:19,420
the realm of the occult now we know this

2947
02:01:24,150 --> 02:01:21,550
through one verifiable project that

2948
02:01:27,450 --> 02:01:24,160
became known as operation often which

2949
02:01:30,240 --> 02:01:27,460
began in the late 1960s and existed at

2950
02:01:31,860 --> 02:01:30,250
least through the early 1970s and a

2951
02:01:34,620 --> 02:01:31,870
number of people I interviewed for the

2952
02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:34,630
book told me quite openly that there had

2953
02:01:39,120 --> 02:01:37,210
been liaison between operation often and

2954
02:01:41,790 --> 02:01:39,130
the Collins elite but essentially what

2955
02:01:44,580 --> 02:01:41,800
happened was that Sidney Gottlieb who

2956
02:01:46,950 --> 02:01:44,590
was sort of an early player in things

2957
02:01:49,350 --> 02:01:46,960
like the CIA's MKULTRA project in the

2958
02:01:51,990 --> 02:01:49,360
1950s you know looking at controlling

2959
02:01:53,850 --> 02:01:52,000
manipulating the human mind on behalf of

2960
02:01:56,190 --> 02:01:53,860
the CIA this man Sidney Gottlieb

2961
02:01:58,200 --> 02:01:56,200
basically somebody you get a PhD in

2962
02:02:00,390 --> 02:01:58,210
chemistry from the California Institute

2963
02:02:03,300 --> 02:02:00,400
of Technology Caltech and a master's

2964
02:02:03,930 --> 02:02:03,310
degree in speech therapy and in 1951 he

2965
02:02:06,330 --> 02:02:03,940
was often the

2966
02:02:08,760 --> 02:02:06,340
as head of the chemical division of the

2967
02:02:11,340 --> 02:02:08,770
CIA's Technical Services staff this

2968
02:02:14,220 --> 02:02:11,350
focus on two areas one the development

2969
02:02:16,650 --> 02:02:14,230
of lethal poison the other manipulating

2970
02:02:18,510 --> 02:02:16,660
and harnessing the human brain you know

2971
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:18,520
in what in simple terms you would call

2972
02:02:21,870 --> 02:02:20,890
mind control and he became known as the

2973
02:02:25,080 --> 02:02:21,880
black sorcerer

2974
02:02:26,850 --> 02:02:25,090
what happened was the post MKULTRA that

2975
02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:26,860
lead got involved this project called

2976
02:02:32,670 --> 02:02:29,770
Operation often this was really a study

2977
02:02:34,950 --> 02:02:32,680
of the occult not just to determine what

2978
02:02:37,860 --> 02:02:34,960
the truth was behind the occult but you

2979
02:02:39,360 --> 02:02:37,870
know inevitably being the CIA it was to

2980
02:02:41,520 --> 02:02:39,370
determine if there were any sort of

2981
02:02:43,500 --> 02:02:41,530
espionage offshoots that could be

2982
02:02:45,090 --> 02:02:43,510
developed from the occult you know they

2983
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:45,100
were thinking along the similar lines to

2984
02:02:49,530 --> 02:02:47,650
the whole thing with remote viewing

2985
02:02:52,350 --> 02:02:49,540
you know the idea of using for example

2986
02:02:53,729 --> 02:02:52,360
Ouija board you know can we can't

2987
02:02:56,400 --> 02:02:53,739
literally they were think you can we

2988
02:02:59,520 --> 02:02:56,410
contact dead CIA agents and use their

2989
02:03:01,290 --> 02:02:59,530
souls to spy on filing cabinets in the

2990
02:03:02,970 --> 02:03:01,300
Kremlin I mean that was literally one of

2991
02:03:05,490 --> 02:03:02,980
the areas that was did you know these

2992
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:05,500
are your tax dollars folks yeah exactly

2993
02:03:09,810 --> 02:03:07,810
you know you imagined guys in the CIA

2994
02:03:12,180 --> 02:03:09,820
you know to almost like James Bond types

2995
02:03:14,820 --> 02:03:12,190
or analysts here behind a desk all day

2996
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:14,830
just coming through intelligence reports

2997
02:03:19,650 --> 02:03:16,930
you don't imagine them sitting around a

2998
02:03:22,740 --> 02:03:19,660
table with candles at midnight trying to

2999
02:03:25,950 --> 02:03:22,750
contact John Smith the CIA agents for in

3000
02:03:28,050 --> 02:03:25,960
analyst in Russia or in Moscow who died

3001
02:03:30,030 --> 02:03:28,060
of a heart attack suddenly six weeks ago

3002
02:03:32,520 --> 02:03:30,040
and they're trying to contact him to say

3003
02:03:34,229 --> 02:03:32,530
dispatch your soul to the Kremlin and

3004
02:03:36,660 --> 02:03:34,239
tell us what you see and then you know

3005
02:03:38,550 --> 02:03:36,670
feed the results back through by

3006
02:03:40,470 --> 02:03:38,560
spelling it out on the Ouija board that

3007
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:40,480
is quite literally what operation often

3008
02:03:45,030 --> 02:03:42,610
did and they consulted Thomas

3009
02:03:48,420 --> 02:03:45,040
clairvoyants demonologist mediums all

3010
02:03:51,570 --> 02:03:48,430
with a view to try and extend the

3011
02:03:53,580 --> 02:03:51,580
ability of the US s overseas espionage

3012
02:03:56,430 --> 02:03:53,590
programs so in other words you know they

3013
02:03:59,189 --> 02:03:56,440
were deeply involved in occult issues

3014
02:04:01,470 --> 02:03:59,199
and the story I got was that not on many

3015
02:04:03,959 --> 02:04:01,480
occasions maybe two or three there was

3016
02:04:06,620 --> 02:04:03,969
sort of crossovers between the whole

3017
02:04:09,540 --> 02:04:06,630
issue of demonology is it related to

3018
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:09,550
operation often and demonology and UFOs

3019
02:04:14,700 --> 02:04:11,410
as it related to the Collins elite and

3020
02:04:17,820 --> 02:04:14,710
the two shared data etc and possibly had

3021
02:04:19,890 --> 02:04:17,830
some sort of interagency liaison for

3022
02:04:21,450 --> 02:04:19,900
short period of time but again operation

3023
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:21,460
off it was kind of like the colleagues

3024
02:04:25,710 --> 02:04:23,290
relate in the sense that you know it

3025
02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:25,720
wasn't an agency with its own building

3026
02:04:31,650 --> 02:04:29,170
it was people inside the CIA that were

3027
02:04:34,050 --> 02:04:31,660
contracted to work on it and who had

3028
02:04:36,630 --> 02:04:34,060
some interest in these areas and were

3029
02:04:39,120 --> 02:04:36,640
asked to prepare reports and results etc

3030
02:04:41,910 --> 02:04:39,130
why don't you talk about a very crucial

3031
02:04:44,130 --> 02:04:41,920
event that occurred in the early 70s

3032
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:44,140
where quite a famous and renowned and

3033
02:04:49,350 --> 02:04:48,610
publicly visible which if you were if

3034
02:04:52,470 --> 02:04:49,360
you will

3035
02:04:53,330 --> 02:04:52,480
Sybil Lee did a a channeling that came

3036
02:04:55,730 --> 02:04:53,340
up with some pretty interesting

3037
02:04:59,580 --> 02:04:55,740
information that evidently really

3038
02:05:03,300 --> 02:04:59,590
affected the thinking of the the Collins

3039
02:05:06,420 --> 02:05:03,310
elite yeah this symbol leaked now

3040
02:05:08,580 --> 02:05:06,430
similarly plenty was a witch a sorceress

3041
02:05:10,200 --> 02:05:08,590
astrologist psychic and she wrote more

3042
02:05:12,510 --> 02:05:10,210
than 60 books originally from England

3043
02:05:15,270 --> 02:05:12,520
and then moved to the US and she was

3044
02:05:18,330 --> 02:05:15,280
even dubbed by the BBC as Britain's most

3045
02:05:20,640 --> 02:05:18,340
famous witch that's literally a direct

3046
02:05:22,970 --> 02:05:20,650
accurate quote and well what's

3047
02:05:25,650 --> 02:05:22,980
interesting is that she was also

3048
02:05:27,180 --> 02:05:25,660
acquainted with none of them Aleister

3049
02:05:29,700 --> 02:05:27,190
Crowley they would actually visit the

3050
02:05:31,260 --> 02:05:29,710
federal-aid family and Crowley what a

3051
02:05:33,780 --> 02:05:31,270
lot of people don't know wrote his own

3052
02:05:35,700 --> 02:05:33,790
poetry and when civil little girl

3053
02:05:40,650 --> 02:05:35,710
Crowley would come visiting and read his

3054
02:05:42,540 --> 02:05:40,660
poetry to her babies exactly cut a

3055
02:05:44,430 --> 02:05:42,550
pretty unique scenario you know the

3056
02:05:45,690 --> 02:05:44,440
babysitter comes out oh no it's Aleister

3057
02:05:50,700 --> 02:05:45,700
Crowley he's gonna read some of these

3058
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:50,710
poems to hear but that is what happened

3059
02:05:55,110 --> 02:05:52,810
and again this was something that the

3060
02:05:58,140 --> 02:05:55,120
Crowley link made the group one approach

3061
02:05:59,970 --> 02:05:58,150
Sybil Lake no civil League as I said was

3062
02:06:01,410 --> 02:05:59,980
someone who was deeply involved in

3063
02:06:03,540 --> 02:06:01,420
witchcraft and I guess like the

3064
02:06:05,460 --> 02:06:03,550
traditions of centuries past the Middle

3065
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:05,470
Ages you know and folklore mythology

3066
02:06:10,110 --> 02:06:07,810
very much steeped in in this whole

3067
02:06:12,270 --> 02:06:10,120
scenario like the ancient witches of

3068
02:06:14,310 --> 02:06:12,280
times past things like that you know

3069
02:06:16,470 --> 02:06:14,320
they wanted to get her views on the

3070
02:06:19,230 --> 02:06:16,480
whole angle of demonology related to

3071
02:06:21,420 --> 02:06:19,240
UFOs now it is a verifiable fact this

3072
02:06:24,180 --> 02:06:21,430
civil League was approached by people

3073
02:06:26,010 --> 02:06:24,190
from the CIA's operation often that can

3074
02:06:27,240 --> 02:06:26,020
be proved and that is borne out by the

3075
02:06:29,340 --> 02:06:27,250
Freedom of Information Act

3076
02:06:31,529 --> 02:06:29,350
what isn't borne out is whether or not

3077
02:06:33,029 --> 02:06:31,539
she approached or she was approached by

3078
02:06:35,160 --> 02:06:33,039
pollen delayed but the fact that she was

3079
02:06:37,229 --> 02:06:35,170
approached by one group in government

3080
02:06:38,850 --> 02:06:37,239
investigating vehicles actually makes it

3081
02:06:40,799 --> 02:06:38,860
more likely that you know this other

3082
02:06:44,220 --> 02:06:40,809
aspect of the story is true but the

3083
02:06:46,290 --> 02:06:44,230
story was that she was basically you

3084
02:06:48,569 --> 02:06:46,300
know asked questions about her views on

3085
02:06:51,180 --> 02:06:48,579
the occult what was going on in the u.s.

3086
02:06:53,250 --> 02:06:51,190
in terms of the occult world you know to

3087
02:06:54,810 --> 02:06:53,260
what extent was he growing you know was

3088
02:06:57,390 --> 02:06:54,820
it a burgeoning interest in witchcraft

3089
02:07:01,109 --> 02:06:57,400
and things like this and paranormal

3090
02:07:03,149 --> 02:07:01,119
issues and according to the group and

3091
02:07:04,620 --> 02:07:03,159
again this is one aspect that obviously

3092
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:04,630
isn't verified otherwise you would know

3093
02:07:10,319 --> 02:07:06,730
about it that reportedly at some point

3094
02:07:13,009 --> 02:07:10,329
in 72 gives in September she went into

3095
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:13,019
literally like a trance-like State and

3096
02:07:18,870 --> 02:07:16,090
during this translight state reportedly

3097
02:07:21,169 --> 02:07:18,880
called some sort of demonic entity that

3098
02:07:24,120 --> 02:07:21,179
called itself kak sulla calm which

3099
02:07:26,339 --> 02:07:24,130
essentially voted the same story that

3100
02:07:28,439 --> 02:07:26,349
the Collins elite was rapidly coming to

3101
02:07:31,529 --> 02:07:28,449
the idea that the earth was a farm and

3102
02:07:33,270 --> 02:07:31,539
we were being farmed for like a human

3103
02:07:35,399 --> 02:07:33,280
life force and when questions are asked

3104
02:07:37,169 --> 02:07:35,409
for while if this entity was one of

3105
02:07:39,149 --> 02:07:37,179
these very entities why would it reveal

3106
02:07:40,680 --> 02:07:39,159
the the secret you know why would he

3107
02:07:42,479 --> 02:07:40,690
blow the lid on what these entities are

3108
02:07:44,129 --> 02:07:42,489
actually up to and the conclusion was

3109
02:07:46,379 --> 02:07:44,139
that it was sort of like a hatred of the

3110
02:07:48,450 --> 02:07:46,389
human race and ego that had made it

3111
02:07:49,830 --> 02:07:48,460
overstep the mark but he was there's no

3112
02:07:52,319 --> 02:07:49,840
doubt that according to the group at

3113
02:07:55,229 --> 02:07:52,329
least that it was this revelation this

3114
02:07:57,089 --> 02:07:55,239
sort of farm based revelation and raping

3115
02:07:59,160 --> 02:07:57,099
of souls that really was the tipping

3116
02:08:00,419 --> 02:07:59,170
point when they went from just realizing

3117
02:08:02,700 --> 02:08:00,429
that these things are meddling with us

3118
02:08:04,500 --> 02:08:02,710
that they could actually have been ever

3119
02:08:07,169 --> 02:08:04,510
since the human race has existed just

3120
02:08:08,819 --> 02:08:07,179
farming us and and we just don't see the

3121
02:08:10,890 --> 02:08:08,829
bigger picture we just think you know

3122
02:08:12,750 --> 02:08:10,900
when we die if you're an atheist you

3123
02:08:14,129 --> 02:08:12,760
know you'd believe you just died if you

3124
02:08:16,020 --> 02:08:14,139
wouldn't be a Christian you believe you

3125
02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:16,030
go to heaven or hell or you know

3126
02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:17,530
whatever the teachings of other

3127
02:08:22,830 --> 02:08:20,170
religions are but nobody realized that

3128
02:08:25,049 --> 02:08:22,840
we essentially like a factory our guess

3129
02:08:27,660 --> 02:08:25,059
is Nick Redfern the book is final events

3130
02:08:35,530 --> 02:08:27,670
the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

3131
02:08:35,540 --> 02:08:39,860
[Music]

3132
02:08:46,050 --> 02:08:43,920
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

3133
02:08:48,540 --> 02:08:46,060
creatures from the darkest corners of

3134
02:08:51,380 --> 02:08:48,550
the mind roam the earth is there

3135
02:08:55,050 --> 02:08:51,390
evidence for mind control time travel or

3136
02:08:56,670 --> 02:08:55,060
devious government conspiracies find out

3137
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the inside scoop on the latest

3138
02:09:01,950 --> 02:08:59,320
conspiracies paranormal activity and

3139
02:09:04,890 --> 02:09:01,960
important phenomena when you subscribe

3140
02:09:07,740 --> 02:09:04,900
to Tim Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

3141
02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:07,750
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02:09:12,780 --> 02:09:10,450
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02:09:15,840 --> 02:09:12,790
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02:09:18,620 --> 02:09:15,850
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3146
02:09:25,580 --> 02:09:21,340
simply send an email with your name and

3147
02:09:31,020 --> 02:09:25,590
address to Mister UFO at web TV dotnet

3148
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:31,030
txt mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out

3149
02:09:42,230 --> 02:09:39,400
[Music]

3150
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3202
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and he can help you - call us today at

3203
02:11:38,950 --> 02:11:35,130
834 six six eight twenty nine that's

3204
02:11:41,380 --> 02:11:38,960
eight hundred thirty-four no tax

3205
02:11:43,960 --> 02:11:41,390
in a coming apart world you need

3206
02:11:46,090 --> 02:11:43,970
something to keep it tied together that

3207
02:11:48,190 --> 02:11:46,100
something is atwood rope the highest

3208
02:11:50,740 --> 02:11:48,200
quality rope made in the USA from exotic

3209
02:11:53,050 --> 02:11:50,750
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3210
02:11:55,180 --> 02:11:53,060
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3211
02:11:57,220 --> 02:11:55,190
quality rope at affordable prices you

3212
02:11:59,170 --> 02:11:57,230
and your customers can depend on find a

3213
02:12:01,720 --> 02:11:59,180
dealer or shop online at atwood rope

3214
02:12:04,900 --> 02:12:01,730
dotnet enter promo code radio to receive

3215
02:12:07,090 --> 02:12:04,910
a free 100 feet of 550 paracord atwood

3216
02:12:09,520 --> 02:12:07,100
rope working to keep the world tied

3217
02:12:11,530 --> 02:12:09,530
together we the people grow cotton wheat

3218
02:12:13,180 --> 02:12:11,540
fabric engraving can bed strips and

3219
02:12:14,950 --> 02:12:13,190
fibers to protect from counterfeit and

3220
02:12:15,850 --> 02:12:14,960
carding to a private bank having a led

3221
02:12:17,650 --> 02:12:15,860
back at interest

3222
02:12:19,480 --> 02:12:17,660
forcing taxes to service debt this

3223
02:12:20,950 --> 02:12:19,490
capitalism or was jefferson correct when

3224
02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:20,960
stating a central bank issuing the

3225
02:12:23,710 --> 02:12:22,610
public currency is a greater menace to

3226
02:12:25,510 --> 02:12:23,720
the liberties of the people than a

3227
02:12:26,890 --> 02:12:25,520
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

3228
02:12:29,050 --> 02:12:26,900
placing of silver dollar in a book

3229
02:12:30,760 --> 02:12:29,060
explains our monetary system call for

3230
02:12:32,380 --> 02:12:30,770
your copy eight hundred six eight six

3231
02:12:34,960 --> 02:12:32,390
two two three seven it's time to

3232
02:12:36,640 --> 02:12:34,970
understand the system call 866 two two

3233
02:12:40,060 --> 02:12:36,650
three seven that's eight hundred six

3234
02:12:42,670 --> 02:12:40,070
eight six two two three seven the gcn

3235
02:12:53,270 --> 02:12:42,680
radio network providing the world with

3236
02:12:53,280 --> 02:13:02,810
[Music]

3237
02:13:10,860 --> 02:13:07,590
yes we now have the insane laughter of

3238
02:13:12,810 --> 02:13:10,870
Nick Redfern to regale us for the rest

3239
02:13:19,140 --> 02:13:12,820
of our lives as he takes over our our

3240
02:13:20,820 --> 02:13:19,150
consciousness this is Nick's final event

3241
02:13:22,470 --> 02:13:20,830
the book is called final events the

3242
02:13:24,540 --> 02:13:22,480
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

3243
02:13:28,110 --> 02:13:24,550
Steinberg you're in the power cast two

3244
02:13:30,480 --> 02:13:28,120
more segments with Nick now Chris you

3245
02:13:32,580 --> 02:13:30,490
were focusing on some really significant

3246
02:13:35,550 --> 02:13:32,590
areas about this theory so why don't you

3247
02:13:38,040 --> 02:13:35,560
take over there well it just gene both

3248
02:13:42,390 --> 02:13:38,050
Gina Nick this is really fascinating to

3249
02:13:46,940 --> 02:13:42,400
me that in September 1972 a project

3250
02:13:49,950 --> 02:13:46,950
called Operation often should hire

3251
02:13:52,140 --> 02:13:49,960
England's most famous witch to do a

3252
02:13:55,200 --> 02:13:52,150
channeling session she channels a dis

3253
02:13:58,020 --> 02:13:55,210
incarnate entity and this has such an

3254
02:14:00,480 --> 02:13:58,030
amazing amount of impact on their

3255
02:14:02,730 --> 02:14:00,490
thinking in that it this is almost like

3256
02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:02,740
the the period at the end of the

3257
02:14:08,700 --> 02:14:06,730
sentence here I think basically you know

3258
02:14:11,190 --> 02:14:08,710
going through your book this was a real

3259
02:14:13,770 --> 02:14:11,200
departure point in terms of them

3260
02:14:16,620 --> 02:14:13,780
discounting any other scenarios this is

3261
02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:16,630
where they really decided that hey we

3262
02:14:21,300 --> 02:14:19,090
are dealing with demonic entities that

3263
02:14:24,450 --> 02:14:21,310
are here and then eventually they

3264
02:14:26,430 --> 02:14:24,460
develop the whole concept or solidified

3265
02:14:29,400 --> 02:14:26,440
the whole concept of the harvesting of

3266
02:14:31,740 --> 02:14:29,410
souls and what are your feelings about

3267
02:14:33,960 --> 02:14:31,750
this I mean does this make sense to you

3268
02:14:36,390 --> 02:14:33,970
do you see a progression of events that

3269
02:14:38,370 --> 02:14:36,400
would somehow legitimize this decision

3270
02:14:41,760 --> 02:14:38,380
on their part what what's your thinking

3271
02:14:44,070 --> 02:14:41,770
on this well well my view is that you

3272
02:14:45,780 --> 02:14:44,080
know unfortunately I'll be the first to

3273
02:14:48,360 --> 02:14:45,790
admit that's given the fact that this

3274
02:14:50,090 --> 02:14:48,370
group if the story is true is existed

3275
02:14:54,180 --> 02:14:50,100
for at least six years I would imagine

3276
02:14:56,640 --> 02:14:54,190
there has been a large membership you

3277
02:14:58,050 --> 02:14:56,650
know it could be I mean I admittedly

3278
02:14:59,520 --> 02:14:58,060
speculate you know it could be twenty

3279
02:15:01,710 --> 02:14:59,530
could have been a hundred over the

3280
02:15:03,900 --> 02:15:01,720
course of 60 years and with outside

3281
02:15:05,820 --> 02:15:03,910
consultants which seems to have been the

3282
02:15:07,470 --> 02:15:05,830
only people like Sybil leak you know we

3283
02:15:09,540 --> 02:15:07,480
could be talking hundreds of people

3284
02:15:11,550 --> 02:15:09,550
who've had some sort of input now I

3285
02:15:13,560 --> 02:15:11,560
interviewed about eleven people only

3286
02:15:15,840 --> 02:15:13,570
about seven from the group who were

3287
02:15:16,980 --> 02:15:15,850
willing to be quoted so in other words

3288
02:15:19,260 --> 02:15:16,990
what I mean is at the point in pivot

3289
02:15:21,030 --> 02:15:19,270
areas I don't know to what extent they

3290
02:15:24,030 --> 02:15:21,040
have additional data that allowed them

3291
02:15:27,120 --> 02:15:24,040
to so clearly and concisely come to one

3292
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:27,130
particular viewpoints but my view is

3293
02:15:32,760 --> 02:15:29,890
that I do agree with them on several

3294
02:15:34,530 --> 02:15:32,770
points I do agree the the phenomenon the

3295
02:15:38,130 --> 02:15:34,540
phenomenon if you like each trickster

3296
02:15:40,500 --> 02:15:38,140
based that it's kind of tantalizing us

3297
02:15:44,220 --> 02:15:40,510
and leaves us dangling on a string so to

3298
02:15:47,490 --> 02:15:44,230
speak it manipulates us it seems to

3299
02:15:49,200 --> 02:15:47,500
change as society changes and as our

3300
02:15:50,580 --> 02:15:49,210
technology change it's always just one

3301
02:15:52,770 --> 02:15:50,590
step ahead you know when we're

3302
02:15:54,210 --> 02:15:52,780
developing air balloons and balloons in

3303
02:15:56,580 --> 02:15:54,220
the nineteenth century people saw

3304
02:15:58,560 --> 02:15:56,590
phantom airships then it was Foo

3305
02:16:01,920 --> 02:15:58,570
Fighters then ghost rockets employing

3306
02:16:05,340 --> 02:16:01,930
sources and flying triangles you know we

3307
02:16:08,010 --> 02:16:05,350
had the contactees then we had you know

3308
02:16:09,600 --> 02:16:08,020
the the greys it's like the phenomenons

3309
02:16:12,900 --> 02:16:09,610
forever changing and that's where I

3310
02:16:16,110 --> 02:16:12,910
agree with them as well I am where I

3311
02:16:17,880 --> 02:16:16,120
disagree with them is unless somebody

3312
02:16:20,490 --> 02:16:17,890
has hard definitive evidence that we

3313
02:16:23,190 --> 02:16:20,500
don't know about categorizing it as

3314
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:23,200
definitively this and not allowing for

3315
02:16:29,310 --> 02:16:27,010
any other possibilities is just losing

3316
02:16:32,400 --> 02:16:29,320
the plot you know it's a losing track of

3317
02:16:34,230 --> 02:16:32,410
keeping an open mind but not a really

3318
02:16:36,810 --> 02:16:34,240
open mind to where it's full of nothing

3319
02:16:39,750 --> 02:16:36,820
but the late systems what sounds are

3320
02:16:41,129 --> 02:16:39,760
disingenuous to put all your chips on

3321
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:41,139
one card so to speak

3322
02:16:48,750 --> 02:16:45,010
well religion does that often people

3323
02:16:50,490 --> 02:16:48,760
just won't accept the think yeah i mean

3324
02:16:53,160 --> 02:16:50,500
i mean you see thinking government today

3325
02:16:56,100 --> 02:16:53,170
I mean look at people you know certain

3326
02:16:58,169 --> 02:16:56,110
people who run for governments you ask

3327
02:17:00,660 --> 02:16:58,179
them what they think about the Bible

3328
02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:00,670
they interpret it literally and there is

3329
02:17:04,650 --> 02:17:03,130
no place for argument there are people

3330
02:17:06,600 --> 02:17:04,660
in the whole tea bagging thing now who

3331
02:17:08,820 --> 02:17:06,610
think the earth was created six thousand

3332
02:17:11,220 --> 02:17:08,830
years ago which is most absurd nonsense

3333
02:17:14,520 --> 02:17:11,230
I've ever heard but they believe that

3334
02:17:17,730 --> 02:17:14,530
with absolute utter reality because it's

3335
02:17:21,240 --> 02:17:17,740
what they're told that they allow enough

3336
02:17:24,089 --> 02:17:21,250
to no leeway either way it's like we're

3337
02:17:27,030 --> 02:17:24,099
in the new Dark Ages but it easy to the

3338
02:17:29,160 --> 02:17:27,040
dumbing down of society and the more you

3339
02:17:29,760 --> 02:17:29,170
dumb people down the more these people

3340
02:17:32,070 --> 02:17:29,770
have

3341
02:17:35,580 --> 02:17:32,080
and yeah and also the more you dumb

3342
02:17:37,830 --> 02:17:35,590
people down there in less control that

3343
02:17:40,430 --> 02:17:37,840
allows a situation to occur where

3344
02:17:43,380 --> 02:17:40,440
someone can gain control because

3345
02:17:46,380 --> 02:17:43,390
nobody's paying attention people are

3346
02:17:48,210 --> 02:17:46,390
believing total nonsense and then the

3347
02:17:51,180 --> 02:17:48,220
real evil doers whoever they might be

3348
02:17:53,850 --> 02:17:51,190
can just come in and do their thing yeah

3349
02:17:56,490 --> 02:17:53,860
I agree and I think this this is a scary

3350
02:17:58,050 --> 02:17:56,500
part you know people say oh well there's

3351
02:18:01,790 --> 02:17:58,060
no way the government could ever take

3352
02:18:04,440 --> 02:18:01,800
control and do this but if everybody is

3353
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:04,450
you know I mean this disrespectfully a

3354
02:18:09,540 --> 02:18:07,170
fat diabetic watching reality TV and

3355
02:18:10,980 --> 02:18:09,550
believing the earth was created 6,000

3356
02:18:13,380 --> 02:18:10,990
years ago that government doesn't need

3357
02:18:15,540 --> 02:18:13,390
to take control because the whole issue

3358
02:18:19,080 --> 02:18:15,550
of standing up for yourself protesting

3359
02:18:20,100 --> 02:18:19,090
and you know making a statement when the

3360
02:18:22,320 --> 02:18:20,110
government does something you don't

3361
02:18:24,570 --> 02:18:22,330
agree with he's gone if people can't eat

3362
02:18:26,550 --> 02:18:24,580
don't even have the energy to walk to

3363
02:18:28,440 --> 02:18:26,560
the end of the street and the problem

3364
02:18:30,750 --> 02:18:28,450
also is so many people get involved in

3365
02:18:32,790 --> 02:18:30,760
wedge issues you know things that have

3366
02:18:35,010 --> 02:18:32,800
nothing to do like we say the biggest

3367
02:18:36,570 --> 02:18:35,020
problem we have in society today the

3368
02:18:38,250 --> 02:18:36,580
state of the economy around the world

3369
02:18:40,500 --> 02:18:38,260
people can't get jobs they can't support

3370
02:18:41,940 --> 02:18:40,510
themselves so we worry about gay

3371
02:18:46,860 --> 02:18:41,950
marriage we worry about gays in the

3372
02:18:49,500 --> 02:18:46,870
military we worry about it Lohan sure

3373
02:18:52,770 --> 02:18:49,510
Lindsay Lohan Britney Spears who cares

3374
02:18:56,100 --> 02:18:52,780
about these girls what is so important

3375
02:18:58,260 --> 02:18:56,110
about them they're not great performers

3376
02:19:00,750 --> 02:18:58,270
Paris Hilton's a great actress Lindsay

3377
02:19:05,460 --> 02:19:00,760
Lohan I guess she was able to act one

3378
02:19:07,350 --> 02:19:05,470
time sure one good film okay but who

3379
02:19:09,840 --> 02:19:07,360
cares about these people why do we waste

3380
02:19:12,930 --> 02:19:09,850
our time worrying about whether Mel

3381
02:19:14,400 --> 02:19:12,940
Gibson yells at his girlfriend because

3382
02:19:16,590 --> 02:19:14,410
he'd be one of the millions of people

3383
02:19:19,500 --> 02:19:16,600
who yell at their spouse or significant

3384
02:19:21,990 --> 02:19:19,510
other what's the big deal why then we

3385
02:19:26,160 --> 02:19:22,000
worry about our cast we have the power

3386
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:26,170
cast it is a beacon of elucidated

3387
02:19:35,610 --> 02:19:34,090
open-mindedness Wow can I quote you I

3388
02:19:38,100 --> 02:19:35,620
actually say with everything you've said

3389
02:19:40,860 --> 02:19:38,110
you know you're quite right I think the

3390
02:19:43,560 --> 02:19:40,870
scary thing is that you know it's like

3391
02:19:45,240 --> 02:19:43,570
that the old adage what is it that bad

3392
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:45,250
things happen because good people do

3393
02:19:50,820 --> 02:19:47,770
nothing to stop it well you know if

3394
02:19:52,410 --> 02:19:50,830
you're if a society becoming more you

3395
02:19:54,841 --> 02:19:52,420
know the difference I see like when I go

3396
02:19:57,110 --> 02:19:54,851
back home to England is that 7 o'clock

3397
02:20:00,450 --> 02:19:57,120
at night 8 o'clock at night you see

3398
02:20:02,070 --> 02:20:00,460
everybody's got the blinds up hanging

3399
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:02,080
out with the neighbors kids 7 year old

3400
02:20:05,970 --> 02:20:03,610
kids are riding the bikes around town at

3401
02:20:07,310 --> 02:20:05,980
8 o'clock you don't see and you know I'm

3402
02:20:09,660 --> 02:20:07,320
looking at my window right now

3403
02:20:11,041 --> 02:20:09,670
everybody's blinds are down you see no

3404
02:20:13,230 --> 02:20:11,051
one if you see your neighbor they look

3405
02:20:15,570 --> 02:20:13,240
the other way you know it's just bizarre

3406
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:15,580
it's like the society becoming an

3407
02:20:22,591 --> 02:20:19,690
enclose in closed society and when that

3408
02:20:25,020 --> 02:20:22,601
happens and people aren't getting

3409
02:20:28,350 --> 02:20:25,030
uptight about things that are going on

3410
02:20:31,011 --> 02:20:28,360
and demonstrating and complaining the

3411
02:20:33,390 --> 02:20:31,021
government doesn't have to do much to

3412
02:20:35,671 --> 02:20:33,400
control people through fear because

3413
02:20:38,041 --> 02:20:35,681
nobody's doing anything to stop it

3414
02:20:39,120 --> 02:20:38,051
you know they're more concerned know

3415
02:20:40,591 --> 02:20:39,130
their weapons of mass destruction

3416
02:20:42,570 --> 02:20:40,601
they're more concerned about who's going

3417
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:42,580
to get voted off the latest Danton show

3418
02:20:50,100 --> 02:20:47,530
and when that happens you know you know

3419
02:20:52,950 --> 02:20:50,110
back of the old days before everybody

3420
02:20:55,560 --> 02:20:52,960
was born on this show when I was a kid I

3421
02:20:57,390 --> 02:20:55,570
used to be able to go to my friend's

3422
02:21:00,690 --> 02:20:57,400
house and Ryan knock on the door the

3423
02:21:02,280 --> 02:21:00,700
door was probably open and it wasn't a

3424
02:21:04,890 --> 02:21:02,290
situation where you had 19 different

3425
02:21:07,080 --> 02:21:04,900
locks deadbolt locks and burglar alarms

3426
02:21:09,631 --> 02:21:07,090
you didn't need that you didn't need to

3427
02:21:12,421 --> 02:21:09,641
have all that protection because people

3428
02:21:14,580 --> 02:21:12,431
behave themselves now you know where I

3429
02:21:16,110 --> 02:21:14,590
live now I have a burglar alarm I set

3430
02:21:17,430 --> 02:21:16,120
the alarm before we leave the place we

3431
02:21:19,560 --> 02:21:17,440
have the multiple locks we have

3432
02:21:21,570 --> 02:21:19,570
everything we have to be paranoid

3433
02:21:25,381 --> 02:21:21,580
because it's a dangerous world out there

3434
02:21:27,690 --> 02:21:25,391
we have been taught to fear yeah well

3435
02:21:31,051 --> 02:21:27,700
that's the thing fear is the greatest

3436
02:21:33,360 --> 02:21:31,061
control factor at all you know there's

3437
02:21:35,490 --> 02:21:33,370
no doubt about that when you tell people

3438
02:21:38,001 --> 02:21:35,500
that government tells even less you do

3439
02:21:41,370 --> 02:21:38,011
what we say you're gonna be nuked by

3440
02:21:43,620 --> 02:21:41,380
some enemy they'll go along with it you

3441
02:21:45,961 --> 02:21:43,630
know there's absolutely no doubt about

3442
02:21:48,060 --> 02:21:45,971
that it's like today you go through an

3443
02:21:49,650 --> 02:21:48,070
airport in the US everybody

3444
02:21:51,990 --> 02:21:49,660
unconsciously without thinking about it

3445
02:21:55,171 --> 02:21:52,000
takes their shoes off because of one

3446
02:21:57,150 --> 02:21:55,181
person who tried to blow up a plane with

3447
02:21:59,730 --> 02:21:57,160
a shoe bomb well you know we had

3448
02:22:02,280 --> 02:21:59,740
one else who put a bomb in his crotch

3449
02:22:02,790 --> 02:22:02,290
what's gonna happen next I get pretty

3450
02:22:05,881 --> 02:22:02,800
crazy

3451
02:22:07,591 --> 02:22:05,891
full body skins oh boy we don't want to

3452
02:22:09,270 --> 02:22:07,601
get into full body scans we want to get

3453
02:22:11,670 --> 02:22:09,280
into the book that Nick Redfern wrote

3454
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:11,680
called five events and the secret

3455
02:22:15,540 --> 02:22:13,690
government group on demonic UFOs in the

3456
02:22:17,790 --> 02:22:15,550
afterlife our co-host is Chris O'Brien

3457
02:22:19,410 --> 02:22:17,800
we just know that lots of you are going

3458
02:22:22,710 --> 02:22:19,420
to be commenting about this week's show

3459
02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:22,720
on our forums check form dot power cast

3460
02:22:28,261 --> 02:22:25,690
com that's forum power cast calm I'm

3461
02:22:29,650 --> 02:22:28,271
Jean Steinberg you're in the parry cast

3462
02:22:38,420 --> 02:22:29,660
Oh

3463
02:22:41,550 --> 02:22:38,430
[Music]

3464
02:22:44,340 --> 02:22:41,560
are you ready to order the official para

3465
02:22:46,320 --> 02:22:44,350
cast t-shirt you asked we answered we're

3466
02:22:50,100 --> 02:22:46,330
now taking orders for the official para

3467
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tired of searching for great talk radio

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search no more I told it it has

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this is Philip rod know you're listening

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to paragraphs one of the most

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informative shows out there so listen

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closely we have one more session to

3573
02:27:04,760 --> 02:27:02,340
spend with Nick Redfern the book is

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02:27:06,859 --> 02:27:04,770
final events the co-host is Chris

3575
02:27:09,830 --> 02:27:06,869
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

3576
02:27:11,809 --> 02:27:09,840
power cast before we broke for our

3577
02:27:14,210 --> 02:27:11,819
station break Nick you were about to say

3578
02:27:16,700 --> 02:27:14,220
something and I didn't want to interrupt

3579
02:27:18,710 --> 02:27:16,710
you but here's your time yeah no I was

3580
02:27:20,840 --> 02:27:18,720
just saying more than anything else but

3581
02:27:22,160 --> 02:27:20,850
you know when we're we talk about this

3582
02:27:23,990 --> 02:27:22,170
issue of people although it's not

3583
02:27:25,670 --> 02:27:24,000
directly related to final events you

3584
02:27:27,979 --> 02:27:25,680
know everybody goes to the airports

3585
02:27:31,819 --> 02:27:27,989
unconsciously takes their shoes off this

3586
02:27:33,290 --> 02:27:31,829
is one event that has I guess altered

3587
02:27:35,510 --> 02:27:33,300
the entire mindset of the entire

3588
02:27:37,250 --> 02:27:35,520
population where you don't have to order

3589
02:27:41,510 --> 02:27:37,260
people to take the shoes up they just do

3590
02:27:44,420 --> 02:27:41,520
it in other words a perceived threat or

3591
02:27:46,269 --> 02:27:44,430
a real threat and the fear of what could

3592
02:27:48,290 --> 02:27:46,279
happen provokes everybody to

3593
02:27:50,420 --> 02:27:48,300
unconsciously take their shoes off at an

3594
02:27:54,260 --> 02:27:50,430
airport so in other words something on a

3595
02:27:57,109 --> 02:27:54,270
larger scale could easily improve

3596
02:27:58,939 --> 02:27:57,119
everybody because that event influences

3597
02:28:01,429 --> 02:27:58,949
everybody who now gets on a plane in the

3598
02:28:02,929 --> 02:28:01,439
United States you know complicit in that

3599
02:28:05,960 --> 02:28:02,939
though of course is the news media

3600
02:28:08,719 --> 02:28:05,970
because they basically blast us to the

3601
02:28:11,510 --> 02:28:08,729
skies 24/7 and I'm not going to blame

3602
02:28:13,370 --> 02:28:11,520
the left-wing media or the right-wing

3603
02:28:14,750 --> 02:28:13,380
media or the middle-of-the-road media

3604
02:28:16,519 --> 02:28:14,760
they all do it they're all looking for

3605
02:28:19,340 --> 02:28:16,529
headlines they're all looking for

3606
02:28:22,309 --> 02:28:19,350
circulation ratings whatever and any of

3607
02:28:24,800 --> 02:28:22,319
these singular events starts a whole

3608
02:28:26,510 --> 02:28:24,810
avalanche of coverage so for example

3609
02:28:28,580 --> 02:28:26,520
we're used to the full-body scans now

3610
02:28:31,160 --> 02:28:28,590
what's gonna happen next well we have

3611
02:28:33,500 --> 02:28:31,170
the Patriot Act in the USA which allows

3612
02:28:35,240 --> 02:28:33,510
them to tap our phones and to do this

3613
02:28:37,219 --> 02:28:35,250
that and the other thing we're about

3614
02:28:38,889 --> 02:28:37,229
ready to allow the President of the

3615
02:28:42,410 --> 02:28:38,899
United States to turn off the internet

3616
02:28:44,510 --> 02:28:42,420
because of a perceived threat yeah well

3617
02:28:47,510 --> 02:28:44,520
I mean this is the thing all of this

3618
02:28:50,680 --> 02:28:47,520
will go ahead unless people stand up and

3619
02:28:53,950 --> 02:28:50,690
say this isn't going to happen

3620
02:28:56,381 --> 02:28:53,960
it requires people to do that you know

3621
02:28:58,360 --> 02:28:56,391
it's like today on the one hand you if

3622
02:29:00,430 --> 02:28:58,370
you look at the demonstrations have gone

3623
02:29:01,841 --> 02:29:00,440
on in the past in the United States all

3624
02:29:03,881 --> 02:29:01,851
rights and things like that you just

3625
02:29:06,100 --> 02:29:03,891
don't get on this scale anymore because

3626
02:29:07,661 --> 02:29:06,110
everybody's too busy watching the latest

3627
02:29:10,301 --> 02:29:07,671
reality show or they're just too

3628
02:29:12,131 --> 02:29:10,311
unhealthy to actually make the walk

3629
02:29:14,070 --> 02:29:12,141
literally I don't know you know I'm not

3630
02:29:17,621 --> 02:29:14,080
saying that literally unhealthy to do it

3631
02:29:19,541 --> 02:29:17,631
and so what happens is that those people

3632
02:29:23,020 --> 02:29:19,551
who could provoke the change are unable

3633
02:29:25,780 --> 02:29:23,030
to do so and you also have people who

3634
02:29:27,940 --> 02:29:25,790
have demonstrations or staged events

3635
02:29:29,740 --> 02:29:27,950
where all they're doing is selling

3636
02:29:31,480 --> 02:29:29,750
tickets or selling themselves we had

3637
02:29:34,331 --> 02:29:31,490
somebody for example we know who that

3638
02:29:36,251 --> 02:29:34,341
guy is a former radio shock jock very

3639
02:29:38,381 --> 02:29:36,261
popular on TV brings nearly a hundred

3640
02:29:40,240 --> 02:29:38,391
thousand people to the capital to do

3641
02:29:42,070 --> 02:29:40,250
what to proclaim himself as The

3642
02:29:45,251 --> 02:29:42,080
Messenger of God well the other thing of

3643
02:29:48,070 --> 02:29:45,261
course exactly even I have to say has

3644
02:29:50,291 --> 02:29:48,080
worked tragically very well is that

3645
02:29:52,541 --> 02:29:50,301
there's almost this belief system now in

3646
02:29:54,400 --> 02:29:52,551
the u.s. that if you complain about what

3647
02:29:57,190 --> 02:29:54,410
the government's doing you're somehow

3648
02:29:58,871 --> 02:29:57,200
unpatriotic you know you see this

3649
02:30:00,970 --> 02:29:58,881
everywhere you know some of the

3650
02:30:02,890 --> 02:30:00,980
complains about it you know the war in

3651
02:30:04,841 --> 02:30:02,900
Iraq what are you you know a terrorist

3652
02:30:06,131 --> 02:30:04,851
well no I just don't you know something

3653
02:30:08,411 --> 02:30:06,141
like no I'm not terrorists

3654
02:30:10,810 --> 02:30:08,421
I just don't believe with me water in

3655
02:30:12,430 --> 02:30:10,820
Iraq you know and people we're

3656
02:30:14,440 --> 02:30:12,440
complaining and demonstrating against

3657
02:30:17,070 --> 02:30:14,450
the Vietnam War people understood that

3658
02:30:19,411 --> 02:30:17,080
they had a different point of view but

3659
02:30:22,180 --> 02:30:19,421
again like a maim a spread throughout

3660
02:30:23,501 --> 02:30:22,190
society if you're against what Italy in

3661
02:30:24,581 --> 02:30:23,511
the Bush administration you against what

3662
02:30:25,421 --> 02:30:24,591
they're doing there's something sinister

3663
02:30:27,761 --> 02:30:25,431
about it

3664
02:30:29,501 --> 02:30:27,771
you know what's wrong with are you for

3665
02:30:31,780 --> 02:30:29,511
the enemy or something and no you're not

3666
02:30:33,911 --> 02:30:31,790
you just realize that there are things

3667
02:30:36,970 --> 02:30:33,921
going on that shouldn't be going on and

3668
02:30:38,860 --> 02:30:36,980
I think this is almost like ingeniously

3669
02:30:40,841 --> 02:30:38,870
and tragically works very well the idea

3670
02:30:42,490 --> 02:30:40,851
that you dare stand up and protest

3671
02:30:44,621 --> 02:30:42,500
you should be investigated by the

3672
02:30:46,390 --> 02:30:44,631
Department of Homeland Security there

3673
02:30:48,490 --> 02:30:46,400
seems to be this almost unconscious

3674
02:30:50,711 --> 02:30:48,500
acceptance now if you demonstrate

3675
02:30:52,600 --> 02:30:50,721
against the government you're right for

3676
02:30:54,850 --> 02:30:52,610
investigation body Department of

3677
02:30:57,280 --> 02:30:54,860
Homeland Security because you're saying

3678
02:30:58,841 --> 02:30:57,290
something isn't necessarily in keeping

3679
02:31:02,171 --> 02:30:58,851
with what the government wishes to

3680
02:31:04,631 --> 02:31:02,181
instill and no to me that's wrong

3681
02:31:06,341 --> 02:31:04,641
governments allegedly history

3682
02:31:08,921 --> 02:31:06,351
elected and if we don't like what

3683
02:31:11,470 --> 02:31:08,931
they're doing we should have a right to

3684
02:31:13,511 --> 02:31:11,480
say so and we shouldn't be viewed as

3685
02:31:16,751 --> 02:31:13,521
sinister people I mean we don't have to

3686
02:31:18,100 --> 02:31:16,761
look just recently when you know in one

3687
02:31:21,161 --> 02:31:18,110
particular state oh I'm getting too old

3688
02:31:23,470 --> 02:31:21,171
names and places but we're people who

3689
02:31:27,341 --> 02:31:23,480
were in animal rights groups and things

3690
02:31:29,411 --> 02:31:27,351
like this or just you know and animal

3691
02:31:31,091 --> 02:31:29,421
welfare groups were basically being

3692
02:31:33,701 --> 02:31:31,101
looked at by the Department of Homeland

3693
02:31:36,791 --> 02:31:33,711
Security you know it's gone to extremist

3694
02:31:38,831 --> 02:31:36,801
levels because no on mass people I'm

3695
02:31:44,801 --> 02:31:38,841
trying to stop it because it's a new

3696
02:31:47,411 --> 02:31:44,811
world it's a brave new world or 1984 has

3697
02:31:51,270 --> 02:31:47,421
come 26 years late well I got to take to

3698
02:31:53,770 --> 02:31:51,280
grave new world not a brave new home

3699
02:31:57,881 --> 02:31:53,780
hey it sounds like the title for your

3700
02:31:59,501 --> 02:31:57,891
fifth book this year as a matter of fact

3701
02:32:00,911 --> 02:31:59,511
right now he's writing the outline he's

3702
02:32:04,511 --> 02:32:00,921
going to submit it to his various

3703
02:32:06,011 --> 02:32:04,521
publishers because I've just been

3704
02:32:08,171 --> 02:32:06,021
looking while we've been talking that's

3705
02:32:09,911 --> 02:32:08,181
some of the four of us and somebody said

3706
02:32:12,190 --> 02:32:09,921
words to the effect that they didn't

3707
02:32:15,071 --> 02:32:12,200
feel I'd done a good job of researching

3708
02:32:17,591 --> 02:32:15,081
this fully because I put out so many

3709
02:32:20,201 --> 02:32:17,601
books at once and so how can I open it

3710
02:32:22,301 --> 02:32:20,211
Redfern accurately do an in-depth

3711
02:32:23,531 --> 02:32:22,311
investigation when he's writing all

3712
02:32:25,541 --> 02:32:23,541
these to once what a lot of you people

3713
02:32:28,301 --> 02:32:25,551
and the person who wrote that may not

3714
02:32:30,341 --> 02:32:28,311
realize is the fact that you know

3715
02:32:32,171 --> 02:32:30,351
probably working on her for eight years

3716
02:32:34,961 --> 02:32:32,181
well yeah I'm in this book there was

3717
02:32:36,940 --> 02:32:34,971
five years in the writing but the reason

3718
02:32:38,621 --> 02:32:36,950
it's just coincidence that it's come out

3719
02:32:40,270 --> 02:32:38,631
it's because this one was published by

3720
02:32:42,791 --> 02:32:40,280
anomalous book my previous book

3721
02:32:45,220 --> 02:32:42,801
contactees was published by a new page

3722
02:32:48,640 --> 02:32:45,230
books last December and Ida book called

3723
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:48,650
masters of Texas published in June by an

3724
02:32:52,961 --> 02:32:50,570
English company called CRC press

3725
02:32:54,881 --> 02:32:52,971
in other words these books weren't all

3726
02:32:56,531 --> 02:32:54,891
ridden at the same time with me you know

3727
02:32:58,361 --> 02:32:56,541
burning the midnight oil trying to crank

3728
02:33:00,551 --> 02:32:58,371
out three books it was three different

3729
02:33:02,711 --> 02:33:00,561
publishers having had the books for

3730
02:33:04,511 --> 02:33:02,721
quite a while coincidentally putting

3731
02:33:06,100 --> 02:33:04,521
them at all at the same time so you know

3732
02:33:09,100 --> 02:33:06,110
it's not a case of me racing through the

3733
02:33:12,131 --> 02:33:09,110
research the publication date is not

3734
02:33:14,171 --> 02:33:12,141
dictated by me you know final events I

3735
02:33:16,180 --> 02:33:14,181
think under eighteen five years ago and

3736
02:33:18,400 --> 02:33:16,190
the research five years ago and it's

3737
02:33:18,849 --> 02:33:18,410
just been published but the monsters of

3738
02:33:20,709 --> 02:33:18,859
Texas

3739
02:33:23,409 --> 02:33:20,719
well the writing on that was finished

3740
02:33:25,089 --> 02:33:23,419
ages ago but it's just coincidence that

3741
02:33:26,739 --> 02:33:25,099
the two different publishers put them

3742
02:33:28,989 --> 02:33:26,749
out at the same time so it looks like

3743
02:33:31,089 --> 02:33:28,999
I've cranked and Beliveau together which

3744
02:33:32,949 --> 02:33:31,099
actually isn't okay it also might be I

3745
02:33:35,319 --> 02:33:32,959
assume if you're like me when I was

3746
02:33:37,269 --> 02:33:35,329
doing a lot of books I'd be doing

3747
02:33:37,749 --> 02:33:37,279
different projects at the same time I'd

3748
02:33:39,579 --> 02:33:37,759
work

3749
02:33:42,399 --> 02:33:39,589
when I needed to on one particular

3750
02:33:43,539 --> 02:33:42,409
project I set it aside I get to

3751
02:33:45,339 --> 02:33:43,549
something else when I got more

3752
02:33:46,479 --> 02:33:45,349
information now in my case when I was

3753
02:33:48,579 --> 02:33:46,489
writing computer books it's an

3754
02:33:50,289 --> 02:33:48,589
assembly-line situation it's not where

3755
02:33:52,599 --> 02:33:50,299
you sit down you research something and

3756
02:33:54,519 --> 02:33:52,609
if you get it out a year later that's

3757
02:33:56,349 --> 02:33:54,529
okay maybe you don't get paid until a

3758
02:33:58,779 --> 02:33:56,359
year later but that's it with a computer

3759
02:34:02,439 --> 02:33:58,789
book it has to be out in six weeks or

3760
02:34:05,229 --> 02:34:02,449
you don't get paid at all we only have a

3761
02:34:07,269 --> 02:34:05,239
moment or two left here so in the last

3762
02:34:09,369 --> 02:34:07,279
minute or so that we can spend with you

3763
02:34:12,309 --> 02:34:09,379
Nick Redfern what should we take away

3764
02:34:14,919 --> 02:34:12,319
from the book final events well I think

3765
02:34:18,399 --> 02:34:14,929
we should take several things one thing

3766
02:34:21,039 --> 02:34:18,409
that's it chemically the book and the

3767
02:34:22,929 --> 02:34:21,049
group the columns we demonstrate that

3768
02:34:25,510 --> 02:34:22,939
release is a powerful thing

3769
02:34:27,849 --> 02:34:25,520
it demonstrates that belief in the right

3770
02:34:30,399 --> 02:34:27,859
hands or the wrong hands can either you

3771
02:34:33,219 --> 02:34:30,409
know at extreme influence on people

3772
02:34:35,829 --> 02:34:33,229
potentially on all society you know

3773
02:34:38,859 --> 02:34:35,839
pending on how it's coordinated etc I

3774
02:34:40,689 --> 02:34:38,869
think and also some of this a great deal

3775
02:34:43,419 --> 02:34:40,699
about the true nature of the UFO

3776
02:34:46,269 --> 02:34:43,429
phenomenon in the sense that because it

3777
02:34:48,399 --> 02:34:46,279
is so elusive and seems to have no new

3778
02:34:50,979 --> 02:34:48,409
interest in communing with us on a

3779
02:34:52,959 --> 02:34:50,989
one-to-one open basis it provokes

3780
02:34:54,489 --> 02:34:52,969
different early systems because you're

3781
02:34:56,889 --> 02:34:54,499
trying to grasp what's going on because

3782
02:34:58,569 --> 02:34:56,899
the phenomenon isn't telling us I think

3783
02:35:01,629 --> 02:34:58,579
that's those are all important factors

3784
02:35:04,749 --> 02:35:01,639
and I think also it demonstrates that

3785
02:35:07,929 --> 02:35:04,759
even within governments you know people

3786
02:35:11,469 --> 02:35:07,939
can become obsessed with in a very

3787
02:35:14,409 --> 02:35:11,479
particular scenario which then overstep

3788
02:35:16,149 --> 02:35:14,419
the mark where they may wish to instill

3789
02:35:17,949 --> 02:35:16,159
that belief system in other people and

3790
02:35:21,099 --> 02:35:17,959
you know regardless of what we do this

3791
02:35:22,839 --> 02:35:21,109
or any other subject being only kameez

3792
02:35:25,689 --> 02:35:22,849
you're right the base I think when the

3793
02:35:28,029 --> 02:35:25,699
phenomenon is overwhelmingly mysterious

3794
02:35:30,579 --> 02:35:28,039
and then trying to force-feed that the

3795
02:35:33,380 --> 02:35:30,589
people is something we should be wary of

3796
02:35:36,769 --> 02:35:33,390
and I hope people will read the book

3797
02:35:38,149 --> 02:35:36,779
and and find it interesting and find it

3798
02:35:39,979 --> 02:35:38,159
interesting that the government would

3799
02:35:43,489 --> 02:35:39,989
fund something like this but equally

3800
02:35:45,469 --> 02:35:43,499
they would realize that we should be

3801
02:35:48,170 --> 02:35:45,479
open-minded not and I think he's

3802
02:35:49,519 --> 02:35:48,180
peaceful that we can learn from Nick

3803
02:35:50,750 --> 02:35:49,529
would we find one of the things that you

3804
02:35:52,399 --> 02:35:50,760
write about well the best way is

3805
02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:52,409
actually for people interested in the

3806
02:35:56,559 --> 02:35:53,850
book I've got a bull for the book it's

3807
02:36:01,069 --> 02:35:56,569
called well the title or the link is

3808
02:36:05,469 --> 02:36:01,079
HTTP colon slash slash events final blog

3809
02:36:08,090 --> 02:36:05,479
spot.com events final dot blog spot.com

3810
02:36:11,449 --> 02:36:08,100
okay Chris O'Brien where do we find more

3811
02:36:14,659 --> 02:36:11,459
of your stuff well albeit my usual

3812
02:36:16,909 --> 02:36:14,669
location our strange planet calm it is a

3813
02:36:20,659 --> 02:36:16,919
strange planet it's our strange planet

3814
02:36:23,689 --> 02:36:20,669
and I want to you know salute our guest

3815
02:36:26,869 --> 02:36:23,699
today and and co-host Nick Redfern you

3816
02:36:28,790 --> 02:36:26,879
are truly an inspiration to open-minded

3817
02:36:31,219 --> 02:36:28,800
individuals who are looking outside of

3818
02:36:32,630 --> 02:36:31,229
the box and I really thank thank you for

3819
02:36:35,389 --> 02:36:32,640
writing this book and being here today

3820
02:36:37,250 --> 02:36:35,399
Nick Redfern Chris O'Brien thank you

3821
02:36:40,550 --> 02:36:37,260
both for being out of the box this week

3822
02:36:42,889 --> 02:36:40,560
on the power cast thank you again

3823
02:36:45,889 --> 02:36:42,899
gentlemen next week our co-host would be

3824
02:36:48,229 --> 02:36:45,899
Christopher O'Brien and we've got an

3825
02:36:49,870 --> 02:36:48,239
exciting set of topics for you to listen

3826
02:36:55,170 --> 02:36:49,880
to on the para cast

3827
02:36:58,990 --> 02:36:57,580
the pair cast is a calculated

3828
02:37:01,840 --> 02:36:59,000
presentation of making the impossible

3829
02:37:05,800 --> 02:37:01,850
incorporated tune in next week for a new